Abandon Hold 'Em? - Page 2

Ironman · #11 07-27-2005, 09:26 AM

I have a theory about low limit O8. I might be WAAAAY off base here, but let me run it by you.

I'm a limit player. I just haven't gotten my head around losing a whole buy-in to the second nut flush...so I'm a limit player for now.

I've played levels from 1/2 to 2/4 (did well but decided I wanted more practice) then moved down to .25/.50, .5/1 games (did ok there too, but found people who wouldn't bet anything but A 2).

I feel that the people down at the .25/.5 & .5/1 game are people that are practicing being "good". They are tight. They nut peddle.

These are good games to practice at, but not good opponents to win money from.

So I moved back up.

The players at the 1/2 level and especially the players at the 2/4 level are much looser. They will call a raise, you can find 5 guys seeing a flop, you can trap players.

So I moved back up to 2/4 (1/2 kill), played the same game I was playing down lower, and have been hitting them hard.

So...as we said a few months ago. If you are beating the lower limits, don't be afraid to move up.

I hope this helped someone.

Dave

Cooker · #12 07-27-2005, 02:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I feel that the people down at the .25/.5 & .5/1 game are people that are practicing being "good". They are tight. They nut peddle.

These are good games to practice at, but not good opponents to win money from.

[/ QUOTE ]

My findings couldn't be further from yours. I find at the limits around .5/1 most players are totally clueless. They call preflop with hopeless hands like Q872. They will happily call down capped turns and rivers with ANY low and decent high hands. The players are almost all calling stations at these limits. I frequently make money in pots where I am quartered because they stay so multiway. I would say there are usually only about 2-3 decent players at my table at these limits. There are almost always several players that will cap every street with the only the nut low or nut straight high despite being quartered several times in the last hour. Almost no player at these tables realize how vulnerable to being quartered the nut high is if it is a straight. I find these tables very profitable in terms of BB/100.

LetYouDown · #13 07-27-2005, 03:10 PM

That's what my experience has been so far at the low limits. Get quartered, make money. Any 4 cards for the most part. Betting/raising with TPTK, no low draw. General ungoodness all around.

FeliciaLee · #14 07-27-2005, 03:15 PM

I love discussions like this, and would like to jump right in.

Right now I'm at a cancer center getting chemo. I have a feeling I will be lucid on and off for the next couple of weeks (if the last chemo treatment was a good indicator), so if I write something that makes no sense whatsoever, you'll all know why [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

At any rate, as one who was never a big HE fan to begin with, and having lost any love for the game I had in the first place by playing so much of it for recent years, I am in the same boat as many of you.

Not to mention that in today's games, it is so much easier to find loose players, loose games, easy money. We no longer HAVE to play HE in order to find a good game.

Okay, I'll add as much as I can when I'm up for it, please continue to keep the thread going, if you want, because it's a subject of deep interest (I've written much about it on my journal in the past three years).

Thanks, guys.

Felicia [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Ironman · #15 07-27-2005, 03:27 PM

That's interesting....I wonder if that is the difference between playing at Party (which I haven't been back to in 4 months) and playing at Ultimate Bet.

Interesting. Might be a good lesson there.

Dave

LetYouDown · #16 07-27-2005, 03:38 PM

I only have a couple thousand hands so far, so take it with a grain of salt...but I've definitely been quartered several times and made money. The caliber of play is so terrible, it's honestly been free money. I've only been learning/playing for a week but I've picked up the basic ideas and have a reasonable idea of a solid starting hand, what draws are worthwhile, etc. So far I've encountered several hundred players who haven't gotten that far yet.

dcasper70 · #17 07-27-2005, 04:35 PM

Everyone, keep in mind that the ratio of HE books/articles to the same for O8 is rediculous. Seriously, there's gotta be 100 HE books and what maybe 5 good O8 books.

How about considering this type of calculation:

# of players / # of skilled players

Compare HE to the same for O8 and I would guess that the ratio is much in the favor of the skilled O8 player. Relatively speaking....

I believe we'll start seeing an explosion from the ranks of those who are tapped out and sick of HE.
I know that O8 has been around for quite some time, but I think were on the leading edge of what's going to be a very fun curve. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

LetYouDown · #18 07-27-2005, 04:52 PM

But also, keep in mind the (# of players who've read a book on poker)/(# of poker players) = ~0.

I agree there will probably be an influx of O8 players over the next couple years, but I don't think they'll necessarily be any good. The average poker player, who isn't very good, can pick up and understand how to play "ok" in a short period of time. The same average player would have a much steeper learning curve to be an "ok" O8 player.

In my home games with our neighbors, we play a mix of HE, O8, Omaha Hi, Stud Hi, Stud 8, Triple Draw LowBall 2-7, Triple Draw LowBall A-5 and 5 card draw...with a couple other odd games mixed in. No one is particularly good, and most needed to be taught the basics of poker when we started. For the most part, however, everyone has picked up HE reasonably well and actually knows the meaning of the word fold. My edge in HE dropped substantially, although still good. My edge in O8 and other two way/thinking games is VERY significant. It's mostly a fun game, and the stakes are micro...but I play O8 everytime I deal.

dcasper70 · #19 07-27-2005, 08:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I agree there will probably be an influx of O8 players over the next couple years, but I don't think they'll necessarily be any good. The average poker player, who isn't very good, can pick up and understand how to play "ok" in a short period of time. The same average player would have a much steeper learning curve to be an "ok" O8 player.

[/ QUOTE ]

That was pretty much the point I was (poorly?) trying to make.

Whenever you can get experienced ahead of any type of curve, you will find a very profitable period of time before the masses even remotely catch up. HE Pros have been making a killing over the last 2-3 years with the influx of sooooo much dead money. Now that gap is closing.

I think O8 is gaining a great deal of popularity, and about to go through a similar (although smaller) explosion. If you're ahead of that trend (and I think most of these O8 posters are) you stand to have an immensely good '06 and '07.

Ironman · #20 07-28-2005, 08:25 AM

I sat down at a 1/2 table last night and not 1 of the other 9 players at the table was already in my database.

That's a good thing.

I'm sure that's not unusual over at Party where you have over 5,000 people every night playing Omaha 8, but over at UB, where we have probably 300 people playing between ring games and tournaments, it was nice NOT to see the same old faces.

Dave