Am I a sissy?

[Macquarie]

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Can't you argue that for the same reason a value bet is not in order on the river, a raise is not in order on the flop?

He can't have many outs if he's behind.


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It does give you the advantage of finding out where you're at in a hurry, thus saving yourself from potential mistakes on the turn and river (though I can't imagine proceeding any further if an A or K hit the board.) This may not be purely +EV thinking, though. Then again, I do suck.

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It's true that raising the flop will prevent mistakes on later streets, but is it good play to prevent making mistakes on later streets by making a mistake on the flop?

This is a classic 'way ahead, way behind' where you have position. We can decide where we are on the turn and river just as well

- if he checks the turn, we bet out.

- If he fires again on the turn, you can decide to call or lay it down there depending on your read (calling though only costs about the same as raising the flop).

- If he fires on the river, you're losing, you fold. If he doesn't, you check behind, and you've got to showdown for the same price as raising the flop, but importantly you may now have won yourself a second continuation bet on the turn.

I've posted this line for similar hands before, and it always seems to split opinion. I've seen similar debates to this in MidHigh stakes http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...art=1&vc=1 where AZK weighs in half way down advocating a flop call (in that hand admittedly the preflop raiser probably only has 3 outs when behind).

[SmackinYaUp]

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Can't you argue that for the same reason a value bet is not in order on the river, a raise is not in order on the flop?

He can't have many outs if he's behind.

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It does give you the advantage of finding out where you're at in a hurry, thus saving yourself from potential mistakes on the turn and river

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And as a secondary benefit, it makes his 10 out draw vs your nines a little more expensive. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Might as well take the pot while you're ahead.