Was this a bad play?

[AceofSpades]

The problem is that you are calling an all in with no way to tell if you are behind and drawing dead to a flush that you let draw for free.

[inanevoyage]

[ QUOTE ]
What's so bad about your play? If you both exposed your cards on the turn who would be labeled stupid?

Your opponent moved all in with 7 outs. I wish that
would happen to me more often. Of course when you lose
it's easy to be a Monday morning quarterback.

Bruce

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what i was thinking originally, but i no longer find it correct to say i made the right play because of what he happened to be holding.

Yes, i was looking to induce a bluff.

Yes, it worked.

But at the same time, i could have very easily been facing the nut flush on the turn with my Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] drawing dead.

But that's why i asked. Obviously i was about an 88% favorite on the turn card, but that set aside was it a dumb move to check this flop?

Im thinking so, and im thinking it cost me the tournament.

[KyleM]

Don't worry everybody makes bad plays from time to time. And when I say bad I mean absolutely terrible [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[lo2dk]

In my oppinion you played it way too slow. I would only say it is okay to play the hand like you did, if you had AA and one of the Aces were of hearts. U would loose to any King or Ace or higher possible flush. Thats just too much gambling.

[inanevoyage]

[ QUOTE ]
I would only say it is okay to play the hand like you did, if you had AA and one of the Aces were of hearts. U would loose to any King or Ace or higher possible flush. Thats just too much gambling.

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously, it wasn't expected that he'd be going all-in. I made the play expecting a leadout bluff on the turn.

And what you say about the K and A is correct. I suppose that's why poker authors caution you to play QQ like a mid pocket pair when in question.
What would've you done with a mid pocket pair on that flop?

[lo2dk]

As far as I can see both you and your opponent had about a 9 in M before this hand. Thats in the top of the orange zone, allmost in the yellow. Still you are both very short stacked. When you or your opponent are shortstacked you must remember that the guy(s) who are shortstacked doesn't need much to move in. Thats why it is so dangerous to give him a free card.
But also it depends on this guy you played against. Had you noticed if he loved to chase flushes earlier? (Is he the kind of guy who plays suited connectors).

And what had you seen him call/make raises with. There is so much information you can get by observing which might help when you are HU vs that particular guy.

Had you and your opponent had a M over 20, i think you played it allright, assuming he wasn't the kind of guy who plays any suited hand and chase any flush. But in this situation I think I would have pushed on flop.
On the other hand I understand your urge to get all his money in the pot even you can be outdrawn, because you want to double up, not just get his preflop 130$ call.

It's a very tough situation I agree. But if you wanna play the safe way and be allmost certain to not get eliminated in that hand you should have pushed (on the flop allready).

[inanevoyage]

[ QUOTE ]
It's a very tough situation I agree. But if you wanna play the safe way and be allmost certain to not get eliminated in that hand you should have pushed (on the flop allready).

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem with that is i'll either win a small pot while being largely ahead, or i'll get called by something that can beat me.

I agree with some of what you are saying, but that cant possibly be the best route.

[lo2dk]

I was just thinking that if you assumed he didn't have a flush draw on flop allready, and didn't pair anything on flop allready, then he only had 3 outs (his ace or king). Remember he couldn't have AK since he just limped with it (thats very unlikely at least). Problem is that if a K or A hits on turn or river (it didn't this time, but maybe it will next time), then you dont know if you are beat or if he has the opposite overcard.

I've seen some kind of players who are willing to go allin with their ace high if they seen weakness and are shortstacked themself. Well this guy who moved in on turn, might be this kind of guy, because he only saw u raise preflop which he might have thought as a steal attempt, and then he saw you check on flop which confirmed his theory.

Im starting to think you should have bet 100 or 200 at the flop. Maybe this would have chased him away, but his respond to your flop bet would give you some information if he didn't choose to fold. Thinking about it I don't really think he would have called your big preflop raise with cards lower than JQ, unless he had a small/middle pair. He would have bet his middle pair on the flop, and since he didn't you know he has at least a K or A to beat your pocket Queens.

[inanevoyage]

[ QUOTE ]
I was just thinking that if you assumed he didn't have a flush draw on flop allready, and didn't pair anything on flop allready, then he only had 3 outs (his ace or king). Remember he couldn't have AK since he just limped with it (thats very unlikely at least). Problem is that if a K or A hits on turn or river (it didn't this time, but maybe it will next time), then you dont know if you are beat or if he has the opposite overcard.

I've seen some kind of players who are willing to go allin with their ace high if they seen weakness and are shortstacked themself. Well this guy who moved in on turn, might be this kind of guy, because he only saw u raise preflop which he might have thought as a steal attempt, and then he saw you check on flop which confirmed his theory.

Im starting to think you should have bet 100 or 200 at the flop. Maybe this would have chased him away, but his respond to your flop bet would give you some information if he didn't choose to fold. Thinking about it I don't really think he would have called your big preflop raise with cards lower than JQ, unless he had a small/middle pair. He would have bet his middle pair on the flop, and since he didn't you know he has at least a K or A to beat your pocket Queens.

[/ QUOTE ]

1) He didn't limp anything.

And i agree that firing out a half to 3/4 pot size bet is probably the best information gatherer. But that's also the exact opposite of what you just said in your post before that. You make up your mind and i'll address it [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

That might have also looked like a big preflop raise, but in the context of the game it was the standard raise for our table at that point.