Black Kings gaybet on a scare card

[Petro]

I'm calling down a TAG on that board.

But I'm really posting just to tell you that all of the books featured in your avatar rock hardcore.

[GetThere1Time]

This is a TAG donkbetting into us. Don't you think he'd c/r an A against us since he figures we're betting the turn a whole lot of the time? Unless his plan is to bet/3-bet but then we can fold to a 3-bet. I think there's a lot of reasons to raise here.

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Then why raise? You can call the turn and the river and get to showdown at the same price you'd pay for raising the turn.

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Because raising the turn and checking the river is superior when our opponent has something like a naked K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. You're right, we are paying the same amount so why not charge him the most when he's drawing.

I think calling down is the worst of the 3 options. Either A) your hand sucks and you should fold or B) your hand is showdown-worthy, in which case the free showdown play is better than a call down. I choose B because the TAG donking the turn is too suspect for me to fold.

[PokerBob]

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I think it is opponent specific and requires a good read. Some players will think as follows "Well, I have the Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] here. This dude might be scared of that Ace, so I'm gonna bet. It might win me the pot right now. If he has an ace he may raise me, but that's OK cuz I have outs to the 2nd nuts." It is these kind of opponents where a raise makes sense, as you are now charging them to draw.

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Thanks for clarifying that for me. I think my problem is I seldom seem to have a solid enough read to make this play. My reads is something I'm working on trying to improve.

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Don't feel bad, as IMO this type of read is very difficult to make. In this particular case, that A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] is the worst possible card in the deck to see. Folding here would not be bad at all, just don't make a habit of it when scary cards hit, as people will then tend to take shots at you.

[kurosh]

Like I said, the first one is close between raise and fold. I lean towards raising though because you will never be 3-bet by a weaker hand and there are a lot of hands that you have beat which will bet out.

[TMFS9]

I don't like folding the turn here, I think a better alternative to folding the turn is to call the turn and call any non heart river.

[goofball]

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All I said was that I'd fold to the 3-bet. I doubt I'm raising this turn, and would probably fold unless I had a read on villain as a sneaky SOB.

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I know you weren't advocating raising. I'm just trying to better understand the camp that favors raising here, because I can't figure out why I'd want to.

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I think it is opponent specific and requires a good read. Some players will think as follows "Well, I have the Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] here. This dude might be scared of that Ace, so I'm gonna bet. It might win me the pot right now. If he has an ace he may raise me, but that's OK cuz I have outs to the 2nd nuts." It is these kind of opponents where a raise makes sense, as you are now charging them to draw.

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If you're at a table with a bunch of guys like that then find a new freaking table.

[kurosh]

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All I said was that I'd fold to the 3-bet. I doubt I'm raising this turn, and would probably fold unless I had a read on villain as a sneaky SOB.

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I know you weren't advocating raising. I'm just trying to better understand the camp that favors raising here, because I can't figure out why I'd want to.

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I think it is opponent specific and requires a good read. Some players will think as follows "Well, I have the Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] here. This dude might be scared of that Ace, so I'm gonna bet. It might win me the pot right now. If he has an ace he may raise me, but that's OK cuz I have outs to the 2nd nuts." It is these kind of opponents where a raise makes sense, as you are now charging them to draw.

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If you're at a table with a bunch of guys like that then find a new freaking table.

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I'd say at limits above 5/10 you'll find a lot of players like this.