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#11
07-23-2005, 01:48 PM
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Re: Another hand from the 2+2 table last night
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] i'd 3 bet the flop and see what he has to say about it. i really don't like the fold on the turn, however, but i wasn't around to play last night so i really dont know how the game was going down. However, from what I've seen it's impossible to put jopke on a range of hands, since these games are usually so LAG he could be playing a pair under your 77, and I really wouldn't be suprised to see UI overcards on this turn. In a normal game I could find a fold but I dont know that I do in a 2+2 lagfest w/ one overcard. [/ QUOTE ] It was a semi-serious game and it was plain to see that Grunch was doing what it took to WIN money. [/ QUOTE ] 1. didn't know it was semi-serious, my bad 2. didn't know jopke was grunch (or that he was taking it seriously. whoops!) 
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#12
07-23-2005, 01:49 PM
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Re: Another hand from the 2+2 table last night
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You had a hand that should go to showdown 100% of times when HU and you managed to muck it and pay the same money. I can't think of any occasions that you can fold this heads-up. [/ QUOTE ] at least someone echoes my sentiments.
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#13
07-23-2005, 01:49 PM
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Re: Another hand from the 2+2 table last night
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I figured Call-Call was more reserved for not so good players that may have you beat, but if not have such bad raising standards that they may be drawing to as few as 3 outs. Not good players who, If not beating you, are drawing well to get there. [/ QUOTE ] well i guess either i'm a "not so good" player for call-call or you are for "making the big laydown with possibly the best hand". and i'm not saying call the river, but i am saying if you were going to fold to a 3-bet, you shouldn't have raised in the first place, but instead call the turn and reevaluate on the river. did he tell you what he had?
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#14
07-23-2005, 01:50 PM
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Re: Another hand from the 2+2 table last night
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[ QUOTE ] I figured Call-Call was more reserved for not so good players that may have you beat, but if not have such bad raising standards that they may be drawing to as few as 3 outs. Not good players who, If not beating you, are drawing well to get there. [/ QUOTE ] well i guess either i'm a "not so good" player for call-call or you are for "making the big laydown with possibly the best hand". did he tell you what he had? [/ QUOTE ] I meant playing AGAINST not so good players. I wasn't saying you were wrong, just telling you why my judgment might have been off. And yes he did.
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#16
07-23-2005, 02:00 PM
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Re: Another hand from the 2+2 table last night
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I think your analysis is reasonable, despite not allowing you the opportunity to get lucky by making a set on the river. However, I would not have felt comfortable about playing this way against 2+2 ers. I would have considered that there was a reasonable chance that either Jaran or Jopke could have had a high pocket pair. So when Jopke c/r the flop and led out on the turn, I would have considered that I was most likely beaten. I also think that it was less likely that Jopke had overcards than a high pocket pair, because of the rainbow flop. That would have made it less likely that he had hands like KQs. Also being the PF 3-better, I would have expected his range of hands to be narrower than Jarans, so that AK may have been the only overcards that he was prepared to play. So at the risk of appearing weak-tight, having initially decided to take a chance with 77 against 2 possible overcard hands, I would have felt inclined to fold to the turn bet. [/ QUOTE ] You may be correct in your assesment of Jopke's holdings, he was playing a rather "reserved aggressive" style but in this case I felt he might be picking a spot. He can't be isolating with 88-AA all the time can he?
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#17
07-23-2005, 03:20 PM
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Re: Another hand from the 2+2 table last night
I think you are right that Jopke would be unlikely to be isolating with 88 - AA all the time.
However I think that because he also raised your flop bet after you had capped PF, and then led into you on the turn that he had become less likely to have overcards than a high pocket pair. Thats because he had to consider the possibility of you having a high pocket pair yourself. If he had had AK and you had had AA-JJ, then his play could have become expensive. I dont think that you played your hand badly. Its just that I would have preferred to fold to the turn bet myself. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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#19
07-23-2005, 07:38 PM
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Re: Another hand from the 2+2 table last night
Ah yes, I remember this one. This is where I put several things together. The key concept for me on this hand was fold equity. I was playing a situation. I would have played this the same postflop with any two cards. Of course, depending on this situation preflop (this situation was exceptional for me), I wouldn't enter with any two cards, but like I said: I was playing the situation.
Wanna know what I had? In white: <font color="white">I had AK - don't remember suits, but they were irrelevant postflop</font> FWIW, I always take the 2+2 game very seriously. It's my goal to win the maximum. Up until the very end, I was playing pretty close to the max. In the last couple orbits, I was experimenting with maniacal aggression, just to see what would happen. This hand was a serious hand.
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#20
07-23-2005, 07:57 PM
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Re: Another hand from the 2+2 table last night
Watching this hand, my question was why raise the turn if you are going to fold to a 3 bet? I know it is the same price, but why not call and hope to hit your 2 outer on the river and raise then? Or show down for the same price. I think HU it was a bad play. I also don't think jopke would do this against 'any' opponnent. At a 2p2 table you can get away with this, but normally it is VERY read dependant.
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