QQ UTG with a ton of action - Page 2

Cased Heel · #11 07-22-2005, 04:44 PM

It's pretty obvious you are beat. Do you really want to pay that much to draw to a Queen, or T9?

I don't. But I'm not much of a gambler. I don't invest much in nominal situations.

ajmargarine · #12 07-22-2005, 04:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Folding for an extra $17 into that sized pot? I don't feel that's prudent unless villain puts his cards face up and I'm drawing dead.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly.

NYCNative · #13 07-22-2005, 04:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
It's pretty obvious you are beat.

[/ QUOTE ]Read the post where I reveal the hole cards. You will be quite surprised.[ QUOTE ]
Do you really want to pay that much to draw to a Queen, or T9?

[/ QUOTE ]If I am pot committed, I kinda have to whether I like it or not.

djoyce003 · #14 07-22-2005, 04:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
It's pretty obvious you are beat. Do you really want to pay that much to draw to a Queen, or T9?

I don't. But I'm not much of a gambler. I don't invest much in nominal situations.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not that obvious. The board is draw heavy, the pot is big. Opponents with J 10, AJ, KJ, QJ, etc are going to push here....if they are going to call the flop bet they might as well push, and the pot is big enough to where they are thinking they should....no way is hero obviously behind here...i think it's likely, but I don't think its a lock, and he's gotta call 15 to win 100....i think he's ahead here way more than 15% of the time, and the times he's not, he has outs.

NYCNative · #15 07-22-2005, 04:59 PM

On a side note, ajmargarine (directed to you since you've been quite helpful in this thread) - can you believe how badly both villains played this hand?

Cased Heel · #16 07-22-2005, 05:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's pretty obvious you are beat.

[/ QUOTE ]Read the post where I reveal the hole cards. You will be quite surprised.[ QUOTE ]
Do you really want to pay that much to draw to a Queen, or T9?

[/ QUOTE ]If I am pot committed, I kinda have to whether I like it or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

1)Stop looking at results.
2)This is why many NL players go broke.

Try to not do either of these.

Cased Heel · #17 07-22-2005, 05:02 PM

Trying to "hold up" in 212BB pots with 1 pair just isn't my cup of tea.

But cheers.

NYCNative · #18 07-22-2005, 05:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
1)Stop looking at results.

[/ QUOTE ]You're hiding behind a cliche reply here. The point wasn't the results. The point is that I was not "obviously behind" as you said. The point is that if I'm not behind even a relatively small perecntage of the time (whether this time happened to be one of them or not) I have to call $17 to win $105.

NYCNative · #19 07-22-2005, 05:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Trying to "hold up" in 212BB pots with 1 pair just isn't my cup of tea.

[/ QUOTE ]Then you don't bet the flop and get committed where you have to call that all-in. Of course by playing it this way you also let the person get the club that beats you for nothing/cheap or you let the bonehead with AJ knock you off your hand despite being a huge favorite at that point.

Not leading on that flop after my reraise with that flop seems like a poor play. Check-fold is so weak-tight it hurts and it's not strong enough to check-raise IMHO (with four others seeing the flop at least) and check-call tells us nothing.

I could have led for less, but that seems rather pointless as well for the same reasons my reraise was criticized as being too small.

djoyce003 · #20 07-22-2005, 05:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Trying to "hold up" in 212BB pots with 1 pair just isn't my cup of tea.

But cheers.

[/ QUOTE ]

The pot is big because his preflop raise got called by a ton of people. His QQ still has a reasonable chance to be good because it's an overpair. He HAS to bet that flop, once he gets a couple of callers and a raise he HAS to call the raise. Stacks are so short that the other two people are likely pushing with draws or top pair here....if the stacks were much deeper, then this would be a different story, but the simple fact is they aren't, and I think hero played it the only way he could. Check/folding this J high flop with QQ is maybe the worst advice in the history of bad advice, which is basically what you are advocating by saying "don't build a pot." The pot was already built on the flop, he's gotta call the push, if he's beat that's poker, but you can't fold for 17 into a 105 pot with an overpair, jeez.