Should I have built the pot here... - Page 2

eviljeff · #11 07-17-2005, 10:52 PM

our flush comes in by the river 35% of the time. even subtracting the times we lose to a higher flush or better (both rare), our equity is high.

irishpint · #12 07-17-2005, 10:58 PM

it should be pretty easy to bet this flop. against all these people we have huge equity. betting the flop gives us odds to call on the turn, but most likely SB isnt betting into us if we bet the flop. flush over flush is rare and you shouldn't ever think it/s going to happen/has happened until they flip their cards over.

istewart · #13 07-17-2005, 11:07 PM

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flush over flush is rare and you shouldn't ever think it/s going to happen/has happened until they flip their cards over.

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This is bad. It wouldn't be that rare for Hero to hit a 4-high flush here and see action on the river that would dicatate he is beat.

bardolph · #14 07-17-2005, 11:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
My first hand post, so please forgive my ignorance.

Did I miss a bet on the flop to build the pot? I am thinking if I would have bet out and built the pot on the flop, then I would have had correct odds to call by the river. All players are loose passive.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) http://216.119.70.224/converter/hhconverter.pl

Preflop: Hero is BB with 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. MP3 posts a blind of $0.50.
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 (poster) checks, 1 fold, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks, Button checks.

Turn: (3 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB bets, Hero folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP3 folds, Button calls.

River: (5 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Button calls.

Final Pot: 7 BB

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I don't like a flop bet here. You're definitely behind, so a bet would NOT be for value, and you have no outs to protect. There's no way you're going to get a bigger flush draw to fold.

Your fold on the turn is weak. The pot offers 4:1, but you have implied odds that make a call here profitable.

Jaran · #15 07-18-2005, 12:55 AM

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You're definitely behind, so a bet would NOT be for value...

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The second part of this statement is wrong.

-Jaran

shermn27 · #16 07-18-2005, 03:22 AM

After reading all the replies, thanks for the advice. Tea is right about the Post Hoc (thinking about what I should have done after seeing I would have made the flush) thing. But actually, it was immediately after I hit the check button that I thought "I should have bet that" so the post hoc thing didn't exactly apply here.

I really just wanted to see if others thought that a bet was correct here. The majority seems to think so and I agree. I still think that a call on the turn is unprofitable given 4:1 odds and only an 18% chance to make a really low flush. Plus, the possiblity that my flush gets beat by a higher flush or gets beat by a card that gives some "idiot" with 3s a boat and me a flush, makes me think the turn fold was correct.

However I think that if the pot had been only a little bit bigger, I would definitally have called on the turn. Which is what prompted the question. Thanks for all the replies.

arsixsixwy · #17 07-18-2005, 03:43 AM

Come on, man, you've gotta stop thinking, "I'm only drawing to the four-high flush" when you use both of your hole cards in completing that flush. Flush over flush happens rarely. Really rarely. Just approach those situations as, "I'm drawing to a flush, which is a fantastic draw to make a fantastic hand."

Recapping the hand: bet the flop. You have a 35% chance of winning the hand almost all of the time (when you catch your heart) and you're up against five opponents, meaning you're contributing 17% of the money. Push this edge. The rest of the hand is easy after you bet this flop. You're not semi-bluffing (you're not gonna get five people to fold), but you are betting for value.

The way you played it, the turn fold is fine, I guess, but I still don't like it considering you're almost sure to get paid off a little bit when you hit your flush.

TomBrooks · #18 07-18-2005, 04:23 AM

Suggest you get off Party .5/1 and go to Pacific .10/.20 until you learn some basics.

FLOP: Bet

TURN: Call

PS: I never heard of a strategy to build a pot to give yourself odds to call something later on. Actually, I think I've heard this before, but I've never heard that it was a correct thing to do.

TomBrooks · #19 07-18-2005, 04:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I still think that a call on the turn is unprofitable given 4:1 odds and only an 18% chance to make a really low flush. Plus, the possiblity that my flush gets beat by a higher flush or gets beat by a card that gives some "idiot" with 3s a boat and me a flush, makes me think the turn fold was correct.

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Think again. You had 4:1 pot odds if noone else called. Probably someone else will call. The button did for instance giving you 5:1. If you make the flush your usually going to win and hopefully collect a bet or two on the river.

Also, this is why you bet the flop when you have lots of people to call and your odds of making the flush are 2:1 by the river. You almost never fold a flush draw.