AJo--Should I worry about the straight? - Page 2

car ramrod · #11 07-14-2005, 02:18 PM

anyone else have any ideas for this thread. I think this is an interesting turn decision. If its not, then someone please enlighten me.

instead of new posts, lets discuss some of the last posts that have slipped off the first couple pages. (with all the talk about improving the forum, I think this will help).

@bsolute_luck · #12 07-14-2005, 02:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
anyone else have any ideas for this thread. I think this is an interesting turn decision. If its not, then someone please enlighten me.

instead of new posts, lets discuss some of the last posts that have slipped off the first couple pages. (with all the talk about improving the forum, I think this will help).

[/ QUOTE ]

with no reads, this bupkiss could have virtually anything. you can make grounds for calling, raising, and even folding. and that is the difficulty with making this decision and discussing this.

there isn't one 'definitive' way to play this hand really. i suggest raising simply because that is my style of aggression.

1. i have a player in the middle who i think i have beat or is drawing to a flush.
2. i have a player behind me who, again, i think i have beat or is drawing since he cold called the flop. however, he could just be one of those "look to improve on the turn and get an Ace, but if not fold" type players. if he folds i don't really mind because- see #3 but he could have the straight, but i don't know that yet.

3. based on the flop and turn play, UTG may be passive and give me a free showdown or more money if my elusive Jack falls and i can't get that free showdown if the player behind me is still in the hand.

4. i think i get more 'dead' money by raising than calling.

car ramrod · #13 07-14-2005, 02:52 PM

I agree, I think we should raise for the points you made.

but
[ QUOTE ]
based on the flop and turn play, UTG may be passive and give me a free showdown or more money if my elusive Jack falls and i can't get that free showdown if the player behind me is still in the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he checks the river after my turn raise, I am not taking a free showdown, I am betting.

shakingspear, what happened, did you raise or call?

shakingspear · #14 07-14-2005, 03:01 PM

I called. I thought it was odd that he bet again after I raised preflop and again on the flop.

But now I'm thinking I should have raised. If he hit his straight or two pair, why would he bet into me again? Wouldn't his most likely play be the check-raise? I've shown enough aggression to this point that I would probably bet the turn.

What do you think?

@bsolute_luck · #15 07-14-2005, 03:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What do you think?

[/ QUOTE ]

player dependent but generally i think you're right about players c/r a turn-made straight against a player showing strength, but he definitely could have 2 pair.

let's get on to the river: what card came? what action took place?

car ramrod · #16 07-14-2005, 03:24 PM

Exactly, I think your right, he would probably have check raised a made str8.

I think the donk bet screams A with a weak kicker. He just doesn't want to believe that you also have one.

So yea, I think you should have raised

What happened on the river?

McGahee · #17 07-14-2005, 04:27 PM

I call because I just don't feel that great about my TP JKicker in this spot, especially with no real draws.
FWIW, I'm a lot more worried about being reverse dominated than a straight; I doubt he's betting a gutshot on the flop.
I'd be more inclined to view it as a gaybet if it were HU, but with 4 people in the pot he has to realize his folding equity sucks and it looks like he wants you to raise and others to call so that he can 3-bet.
Without a read I'm not assuming a .5/1 Party player is trying to prevent the flush draw from getting a free card either.
Basically if I'm going to raise and I'm not in a position to protect my hand, then I like to be more confident that I have the best hand if I'm going to make a pure value-raise. I don't know how often we're good here, but I'd be mildly surprised if it was much more than 33% of the time.

car ramrod · #18 07-14-2005, 06:16 PM

I think there is a greater chance he is donk betting another A here with a weaker kicker.

I am not worried about the str8, like you said, he may have us reverse dominated, but I think I still like a raise here. I think he is trying to say he doesn't think we have an A, and he does.

shakingspear · #19 07-14-2005, 06:28 PM

What are your thoughts?

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) http://216.119.70.224/converter/hhconverter.pl

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, Hero raises, MP3 calls, 3 folds, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 bets, MP1 calls, Hero raises, MP3 calls, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (9.25 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG+1 bets, MP1 calls, Hero calls, MP3 calls.

River: (13.25 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG+1 bets, MP1 calls, Hero...

MrWookie47 · #20 07-14-2005, 06:33 PM

The river call is a no brainer, and, as I and many have said, I don't mind the call on the turn all that much. There's a case for raising which I'm leaning towards, but it's close.