QQ - Ace on flop

[arsixsixwy]

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There's no reason to put anyone on an A given the lack of aggression.

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You don't think UTG+2 ever has a weak-ish ace here? I think AT and AJ are certainly within the range of hands that we could be looking at. Hell, as a poster, maybe even A9 or A8. Considering our hero 3-bet preflop, UTG+2 could be in call-down mode thinking AQ, AK, or AA.

That said, if you bet the turn and just get called, you pretty much have to bet the river. I'd say you could often fold safely to a river check/raise (which is not to say that I would in the heat of battle).

[eviljeff]

wow, there is NO way I bet this river. it's not even close for me.

[silvershade]

A check raise on either the flop or the turn and I have no hesitation folding here.

[MrWookie47]

There is no way a river bet is for value. If you get called, you're tanked the majority of the time unless a lower PP decides to "keep you honest." There just aren't that many hands they could be calling you with that you beat. If you have a read that these two clowns will call down with J high, sure, go ahead and value bet, but they're definitely the exception.

If you want to bet to get a better hand to fold, you might have a case, but I think that if a weak A has made it this far, they aren't going away. You might get KK to fold.

I'm definitely checking this river.

[MrWookie47]

Being OOP pushes slightly in favor of betting, particularly against tight-passive opponents. When you're OOP and check, you give your opponent the option of betting for value. He can check behind hands you beat, and bet hands he thinks beat you. If you bet, he doesn't have that option. He can raise and expose himself to a 3bet, call, or fold, which aren't nearly as attractive options. Now, if your opponent loves to bluff, he may bet with more hands than he calls. There is a very good discussion of this in ToP.

[nomadtla]

I check that turn, and call one (not 2) on river if I have to. I play on UB which (from what I've seen for Party hands here) is more weak/tight, and I see plenty of hands like this with even AK in calldown cause of the eights. I think your beat and getting called in two places on the flop seals it for me. I wouldn't fire at this again (after the flop) UI. And I'd pay one river bet just cause of pot size. So maybe I'm weak/tight, I just don't think you're good against 2 offten enough to bet this turn or deffinately not the river.

[silvershade]

Yeah, with hindsight I actually think checking the turn here is better ( even though it feels kinda weak tight ), at the time I bet only because of the possible flush draw but on reflection, given the pre flop action, who is in the hand on the flush draw without the ace anyway? Maybe KQs but thats about it.

Betting the river was never even considered, they werent folding anything but a busted flush and anything calling me had me beat.

Results in white;
<font color="white">SB had A4s (clubs)
UTG+2 had KK
SB wins </font>

[Bodhi]

Ugly [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] I still see people call all the way with junk every day, this was different. Nh

[DeathDonkey]

I think you played this very well. Checking the turn is another option, though if you do I'm not convinced you have to call on the river. That is just a real bad flop for you plain and simple.

-DeathDonkey

[nomadtla]

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if you do I'm not convinced you have to call on the river. That is just a real bad flop for you plain and simple.

-DeathDonkey

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true
I would deffinately mark a read on UTG+2 for being weaktight on that preflop play