Dealing with being a loser

[Tommy Angelo]

"I don't know if it's just the fact that I'm a very competitive person, but I just can't stand losing at anything that I do, and that really poses a problem when I'm stuck a couple of racks and refuse to accept it, instead I dig a bigger hole for myself to get out of."

I know this sounds sick, but I think you might be deriving an odd sort of self-destructive self-pity need from your losses. Otherwise, ask yourself, why would you ever play again after nine straight losses? I don't think you went to the casino the tenth time because you needed to make some money and you felt this was the best way to make some at the time.

And asking discipline-prone people what they do when they are being disciplined is not going to bring you closer to poker happiness. "Quit when you are playing bad. Quit when the game is bad. Don't lose over a certain amount." This advice means nothing to a crack addict with a pipe in his hand. Sure, the next day, with a clear head, he can beat himself up with remorse and regret, and make resolutions for next time. But at the moment when the sickness is strongest, nothing is strong enough to stop the next puff. Flops are the same way, I believe. Perhaps if you were to forget everything about money, and cards, about players, about winning and losing, and view yourself as a flop addict, one whose addiction grows strongest when losing, maybe then some good changes have a chance to take place and take hold.

Tommy

[astroglide]

"why would you ever play again after nine straight losses? I don't think you went to the casino the tenth time because you needed to make some money and you felt this was the best way to make some at the time."

EXACTLY.

[anatta]

That point about not complaining when running bad is so true. There is a very solid player in my regular game, and he is truly the same person whether he is winning or losing. A tough hand, he just quietly says "that's good" and mucks. When he is losing, nobody takes shots at him.

I still dream of playing great poker, but recently I've added the goal of having a great poker playing attitude, true detachment from the results, not just window dressing or some acting like it doesn't matter...but hard earned, heartfelt wisdom that it really doesn't matter.

[brad]

having been and maybe still prone to 'meltdowns', which are always a product of playing bad and never just bad luck, although losses can be just bad luck, i really think you need to

a) take a break until you can play relaxed
b) step down in limit
c) play shorter sessions if you feel fatigue or whatever is a contributing factor
d) set a 'training' stop loss limit at say a modest 30 BB until you can once again trust in your judgement
e) perhaps completely and ridiculously tighten up in early/mid position to make the game easier for you right now.
f) perhaps play stud or something for a while

btw, the most number of meltdowns in a row ive had well this is embarassing but 3 in a row. (a couple times. one three session string cost me 15k and i vowed never to do that again especially when i was at my 'max limit')

[tiger1]

Ouch. What was your bankroll at the time you lost $15k? How long did it take you to recover your loss?

[D.J.]

First of all let me say thanks for all of your responses. Yes I have been having a bad run, but I'll admit much of that is my fault, and it seems when I'm playing badly, the bad beats by the 2 or 3 outers come with it, so the bad run has been a lot b/c of my perhaps bad play. However, the purpose of me posting this was not the usual "oh I'm running so bad what do I do"? I was more concerned w/ the amount that I would lose in one night or on any given losing night. If I lose, I might routinely lose in one night what I won in 3. It just seems to me that I'm losing way too much and was asking what you guys do to limit yourself on losing nights so you don't lose a week's worth of winnings in 1 session. I just think it's a problem when I walk into the casino w/ a couple thousand and walk out w/ $40 playing 15-30 or 20-40. It just seems like I should have maybe stopped at some point and said that's enough. I was asking if you guys stop when losing, or are you like me trying to play all night to get even b/c you can't accept losing. Just wanted to clarify a little bit.

-D.J.

[brad]

not too long if you count the fact i was playing higher only because i was running real good in the 20/40 he game anyway so i had 'money to burn'. heh

[DeezNuts]

I am of a small minority that does not bring too much cash to the casino(and rarely play more than 5 hours a session). I play 15-30 and 20-40 exclusively, but I bring more than $1k and less than $1500 to the casino. I can always dip in the ATM for an extra $300, but only if the game is good.

Usually if I'm playing crappy I'll buy in $300-$400 at a time and at some point I will just leave after one of the buy-ins is gone. I know people don't agree, but when you are getting killed, going all-in and limiting losses can help. Forget about the limitation of moves, etc. When I am stuck 30BB, I am not psychologically all there. I know I need to work on this, but I know myself, so it would be dangerous to have another 50BB in my wallet.

Granted, I have come back from large deficits before, but it is usually when I stay and the game is great. Still, even with all these tricks I had a bad run back in Sept-Oct(about 150BB in 60 hours play) and stopped playing for a month(I usually put in 60-80hrs/month). It was actually quite theraputic.

DN

[brad]

normally 50 BB (but ill leave when im down to 7 BB,etc.) but when running bad i think its appropriate to call it a day at 30 BB or less and cash out with a pittance rather than just go all in and blow a few bets just because youre all in.

[J.A.Sucker]

Mason,

I think this is one of the most important and useful essays that you have ever written. There are several key concepts that one needs to internalize to be a long-term winner when things aren't going well, and they are all addressed here. I especially like the one about buying more chips when you sit down. This is a simple thing to do, doesn't change how you play at all, and really can make the difference. I frequently buy 2 or 3 racks of chips to start out with, and build a huge pyramid of them; new players always say "oooh, chip leader! You run goot!" or the like. This is certainly better than being the dude rebuying 2 stacks every other hand - it just looks better and keeps people from running over you. Further, combined with the tighter play that you advocate, people might see you as a guy who is "sitting on his chips" and this may allow you to steal one or two smallish pots, though you should choose these spots carefully.