J-J in tournament

[StoneRose]

So for everyone who advocates folding J-J in this spot, what size chip count would I need to make it a good call?

The next time the blinds get to me they will probably be 100/200 so I will have about 7 rounds left to pick up a good hand and stay alive. If I had $1000 in chips instead of 2150 -- would J-J have been a good hand to take a stand on in this raise-reraise scenario?

[locutus2002]

I get about 32% with my ranges, which to me says "unclear".

It's about even, and if its a little worse, well there are alot of chips in the pot. It's not much worse.

I would much rather get an almost even deal now for alot of chips, than have to push 77 UTG when the blinds go up to continue to survive.

[HonchoOverload]

[ QUOTE ]
I get about 32% with my ranges, which to me says "unclear".

It's about even, and if its a little worse, well there are alot of chips in the pot. It's not much worse.

I would much rather get an almost even deal now for alot of chips, than have to push 77 UTG when the blinds go up to continue to survive.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, but calling all in and pushing are a lot different things, and the hands in this example are about the worst hands I'm putting them on. If it's AK vs. JJ vs. QQ it's much worse, obviously. I understand the range being 32%, but if you wait and make a raise move at least you've got FE as well.

[A_PLUS]

[ QUOTE ]

Even When I set up the worst possible scenario to prove my point and pretend it is actual analysis it is brutal:

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1078347
pokenum -h ac qc - jh jd - kd ts
Holdem Hi: 1370754 enumerated boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ac Qc 555791 40.55 811478 59.20 3485 0.25 0.406
Jd Jh 504137 36.78 863132 62.97 3485 0.25 0.369
Ts Kd 307341 22.42 1059928 77.32 3485 0.25 0.225

[/ QUOTE ]


FYP

[locutus2002]

FE is highly overrated for short stacks.

No one believes they start picking up hands once they are low on chips.

If you can't play jacks in an unclear situation with a soon to be short stack, you may as well shut your computer off.

[locutus2002]

what does "FYP" mean?

[A_PLUS]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, but calling all in and pushing are a lot different things, and the hands in this example are about the worst hands I'm putting them on. If it's AK vs. JJ vs. QQ it's much worse, obviously. I understand the range being 32%, but if you wait and make a raise move at least you've got FE as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

You dont have F.E. against AA-QQ, AK anyway, so wether you are raising or calling against this ridiculous range is irrelevant.

UG raising range at low-mid level party poker tournaments is a LOT larger than anything that you have mentioned. This particular player is unknown, so we have to assume average. We are pretty far ahead of the average range for them. [please dotn give me the b/s "he will not raise with 77, AT, KJ, etc b/c it is just not true for the average player.

So, if CO had AA-QQ, do you think he overbets the pot here?

I dont. PUSH!

[A_PLUS]

[ QUOTE ]
what does "FYP" mean?

[/ QUOTE ]

Fixed
Your
Post

[HonchoOverload]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Even When I set up the worst possible scenario to prove my point and pretend it is actual analysis it is brutal:

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1078347
pokenum -h ac qc - jh jd - kd ts
Holdem Hi: 1370754 enumerated boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ac Qc 555791 40.55 811478 59.20 3485 0.25 0.406
Jd Jh 504137 36.78 863132 62.97 3485 0.25 0.369
Ts Kd 307341 22.42 1059928 77.32 3485 0.25 0.225

[/ QUOTE ]


FYP

[/ QUOTE ]

Worst possible scenario? How is this worse than an overpair and any other random cards?

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1078401
pokenum -h ad ac - jd jc - 7c 2s
Holdem Hi: 1370754 enumerated boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ac Ad 968764 70.67 396221 28.91 5769 0.42 0.708
Jc Jd 247135 18.03 1117850 81.55 5769 0.42 0.182
2s 7c 149086 10.88 1215899 88.70 5769 0.42 0.110

Nice try, but you're way off.

[HonchoOverload]

[ QUOTE ]

So, if CO had AA-QQ, do you think he overbets the pot here?

I dont. PUSH!

[/ QUOTE ]

I've seen plenty of players overbet AA-QQ this way, particularly KK and QQ