New York Poker Players To Protest NYPD Raids

[Hellmouth]

Like it or not its illegal in NYC.

Should the drug dealers get their confiscated money or cars or homes back?

Greg

[IgorSmiles]

TStone, wrong, only the rake is illegal. How is the players club holding money for the players, illegal money, if the players are doing nothing illegal?

Hellmouth, also wrong. If drugs were legal to do but not to sell, then you may be able to draw a comparison that makes sense. Yours does not.

[TStoneMBD]

well i dont know the law very well, but the money that the player's club has in possession is their money. the chips that the players are using do not have to lawfully represent money.

the club is running an illegal operation and if it can be proven that they have earned such and such amount of money, then that much money can be confiscated from their accounts.

if the police arrest a drug dealer and find 50k sitting in his bank account with no knowledge of how he earned it legally, its not like they are just going to let him keep it. all of it, or most of it will likely be confiscated.

[TakeMeToTheRiver]

Are you a lawyer or do you just play one on 2+2?

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this is a spinoff of the story that is extremely biased on the side of the player.

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No its not -- right at the beginning of the piece, the author insinuates that the clubs closed in May were just like Teddy KGB's club in Rounders. That is certainly not the case.

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the money held by the player's club is illegal money, so the police are allowed to confiscate it.

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What the heck is "illegal money"??? Money is money.

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there is no contract between the player's club and its players that constitutes the chips in play as owed money.

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Actually, there is most definitely a contract between the clubs and the players that the chips represent owed money. A contract does not need to be in writing and can exist based on established practice -- that is the case with chips at a small card room or at a Vegas casino. (Of course, the contract may not be enforceable...)

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while its obvious, or should be obvious to the cops that the chips are worth money and they are essentially taking money from innocent players, they have no way to prove that the money belongs to them and according to the law the players do not own anything.


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Actually, it is likely that the players owned the chips that they were not allowed to keep after the raid. If someone wanted to be ballsy, they could have asked for a receipt for the chips being taken from them during the raid -- of course, that might also have bought them a trip to jail for the evening. The fact that you had $X in chips sitting in front of you at the time of the raid would be pretty strong evidence that $X of the confiscated money was yours.

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i find it highly unlikely that the police on scene are pocketing money for themselves. we all know this isn't the case.

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No comment, but no reason to believe any cash was pocketed.

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however, i felt it necessary to point out the flawed thinking in a clearly biased article by this website.

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I agree that the article is poorly written, but it is you that provided a good example of "flawed thinking."

[TomBrooks]

Why don't the players sue to get the money back? If it is legal to play poker, they don't have to worry about a problem with that.

[TM1212]

[ QUOTE ]
TStone, wrong, only the rake is illegal. How is the players club holding money for the players, illegal money, if the players are doing nothing illegal?

Hellmouth, also wrong. If drugs were legal to do but not to sell, then you may be able to draw a comparison that makes sense. Yours does not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually when you don’t know wtf you are talking about you really should stfu!

Any money in play on a table being raked (rake defined by the house profiting in any way) is participating in illegal activity.

Many precedents (what these gray areas in law are based on) have been set and all cases (at least in NJ) have been ruled this way. This is because of the possibility of money laundering and racketeering issues with the money and because as previously stated its involvement in illegal activity (ie the rake).

This is the law right or wrong!

[TM1212]

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Why don't the players sue to get the money back? If it is legal to play poker, they don't have to worry about a problem with that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Participating in a raked game is illegal! The money will go to the city. Thanks for the generous donation to nyc.

If they tried to sue they would end up losing a lot of money on lawyers fees.

[IgorSmiles]

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Actually when you don’t know wtf you are talking about you really should stfu!



[/ QUOTE ]


No need to curse me out in initials, Jack. Especially when I didnt state anything as fact. I posed a simple question: If the players are doing nothing illegal, and clearly, it is the players money then how is it legal to confiscate it with no mechanism to return it to the lawful owner? That strikes me a very unamerican concept.

Money cannot participate in illegal activity. Money is an object.

[45suited]

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I used to walk by a NYPD police station on the way to the gym every night. One time i overheard them (between 5 and 8 cops) talking about who they were betting on for the monday night football game.

The hypocrisy is overwhelming.

[/ QUOTE ]

The stupidity of blaming the police for following orders is overwhelming. It's not like some random beat cop decided to execute this raid. Those kinds of decisions are not made at that level. They were not being hypocritical, they're just a bunch of guys who'd like to be able to pay their mortgages and have to follow orders, which sometimes includes enforcing laws that they may not personally agree with or care about.

[IgorSmiles]

[ QUOTE ]
Participating in a raked game is illegal!

[/ QUOTE ]

Now who needs to stfu? If this were true, why was not a single player cited or charged?