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#11
07-11-2005, 02:35 AM
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Re: I am consistently fold hands like this..
[ QUOTE ]
you should NOT be folding this hand or any pair PF from mp for 1 SB!! [/ QUOTE ] We'll have to disagree then. 2 or 3 positions later and I'll usually play 44. From MP1 I would need at least 66 or maybe 77 to feel comfortable. That's not to say I'll fold 44 all the time from this position but I'll fold it some of the time. 
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#12
07-11-2005, 02:39 AM
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Re: I am consistently fold hands like this..
[ QUOTE ]
you should NOT be folding this hand or any pair PF from mp for 1 SB!! [/ QUOTE ] uh you are the first to enter the pot, with a speculative hand, that needs multiway action to be a +ev hand(remember you check/fold most flops, and those 1SB addup) come on bro, its not even close without a specific read on the players left to act FWIW I'm, folding 55down, raising 77up ..and vary 66 here
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#13
07-11-2005, 02:40 AM
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Re: I am consistently fold hands like this..
One other thing, if you're really feeling crazy you could raise that flop and try to knock out the players behind you. If you get reraised, maybe call 1 to see the turn and get ready to fold if the turn isn't a 5 or a 4.
If everyone behind you falls out after your flop raise and SB checks the turn, then you probably have the best hand and can bet the turn and maybe the river. I wouldn't raise here very often, but I would do it occassionally.
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#14
07-11-2005, 02:49 AM
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Re: I am consistently fold hands like this..
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think you need to showdown here just because you call on the flop getting at least 6:1. [/ QUOTE ] The point is that 6:1 is NOT enough to call for this hand if you're hoping to improve. We can only call profitably if we think we're ahead. You are making a -EV call if are not planning to show this down. And since almost every turn card is a scare card, we can never be sure that our hand didn't just get beaten. So if we call the flop, we have to show this down, or we're just throwing money away on the flop. You might as well pick up a 50 cent piece and throw it away every time you do it. Sure, it's "only 1 more SB", but -EV is -EV. This will cost you money in the long run. That's why folding is correct against a medium sized field like this.
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#15
07-11-2005, 02:51 AM
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Re: I am consistently fold hands like this..
how tight are the micro-limit games over there that you let go of hands like this? Yes it is a speculative hand that needs help in order to win, but you will make money playing this for 1 SB from most positions... you generally will have the implied odds you need... Now, if it were from late position, you could have an argument that you wouldn't have the right implied odds for this kind of hand. Most have already folded right? so either you fold or go for a semi-bluff steal
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#16
07-11-2005, 02:53 AM
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Re: I am consistently fold hands like this..
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] you should NOT be folding this hand or any pair PF from mp for 1 SB!! [/ QUOTE ] We'll have to disagree then. 2 or 3 positions later and I'll usually play 44. From MP1 I would need at least 66 or maybe 77 to feel comfortable. That's not to say I'll fold 44 all the time from this position but I'll fold it some of the time. [/ QUOTE ] tell me, why and how would you play this hand 2-3 positions later, but not from this position?
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#17
07-11-2005, 03:01 AM
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Re: I am consistently fold hands like this..
[ QUOTE ]
how tight are the micro-limit games over there that you let go of hands like this? Yes it is a speculative hand that needs help in order to win, but you will make money playing this for 1 SB from most positions... you generally will have the implied odds you need... Now, if it were from late position, you could have an argument that you wouldn't have the right implied odds for this kind of hand. Most have already folded right? so either you fold or go for a semi-bluff steal [/ QUOTE ] ok you hit a set 7.5/1 .. which wins on the order of 3/4ths of the time so roughly 10/1 in implied odds for a sml pair to be breakeven you are getting a monster 1.5/1 on the intial limp, I'd say roughly 5/1 or so is the minimum preflop for a standard .5/1 table so you need all 3 ppl left to limp, the SB to complete, and BB to check .. uh that isn't all that likely, and if the pot gets raised, it really sucks balls to play 3handed with 44 and no initiative, paying 2bets to see the flop edit: you are prob fine if 2of 3limp, the SB always completes, and the pot is never raised .. but you need looser than the standard .5/1 players behind you for this situation to be likely
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#18
07-11-2005, 03:03 AM
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Re: I am consistently fold hands like this..
[ QUOTE ]
how tight are the micro-limit games over there that you let go of hands like this? Yes it is a speculative hand that needs help in order to win, but you will make money playing this for 1 SB from most positions... you generally will have the implied odds you need... Now, if it were from late position, you could have an argument that you wouldn't have the right implied odds for this kind of hand. Most have already folded right? so either you fold or go for a semi-bluff steal [/ QUOTE ] There are only 7 players at the table. After Hero, there are 3 players left to act plus the blinds. You would really like to see this one with 4 other players. Do you think 2 out of 3 will limp in behind you (and the small blind will call as well)? Did you know that if everyone behind you is a 50 VPIP, it's only a 50% chance that you'll get your two limpers before the blinds? If SB is 75% VPIP from that position, then you're only 37.5% chance of seeing a 5-handed flop. And I didn't even throw in the chance of seeing a raise and messing everything up. If you still think it's a yes, then go ahead and limp. Otherwise, toss it. You need to think through these plays, otherwise you may be costing yourself money without even knowing it.
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#20
07-11-2005, 03:05 AM
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Re: I am consistently fold hands like this..
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] you should NOT be folding this hand or any pair PF from mp for 1 SB!! [/ QUOTE ] We'll have to disagree then. 2 or 3 positions later and I'll usually play 44. From MP1 I would need at least 66 or maybe 77 to feel comfortable. That's not to say I'll fold 44 all the time from this position but I'll fold it some of the time. [/ QUOTE ] tell me, why and how would you play this hand 2-3 positions later, but not from this position? [/ QUOTE ] In later position you have more info. Maybe 2 more people have limped in and it's safter to play this hand. Maybe somebody has already raised and it's an easy fold. I don't think you can give one standard answer for 44 from early position because it depends on table conditions. If you're at a table where there is a lot of preflop raising then you'd prolly want to fold 44. If 6 people limp in ever time then I prolly play it.
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