I'm a dumbass i think

[savman]

[ QUOTE ]
you played it very good. perfectly, id say. you gat unlucky twice... firstly cause you missed everything, and moreso because your opponent is absolutely incredibly bad at NLH and got super lucky to win this pot.
oh well, you cant win every hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

he was behind QQ, he could take the odds being offered and try and get there. pushing is wrong. actually hero got lucky he was against qq instead of a set or suited ace where it would have been worse. i dont see how pouring money into a pot when behind is a good play...i havent figured pot odds on flop and turn (which we didnt take) even though we picked up the jack we were still about a two to one dog there....so prob neutral call considering the pot (tired not going to figure it out) and i doubt we have much if any fold equity. i dont like it. fold after you lead the flop. i repeat you are lucky you didnt run into a more dominating hand given the action. opponent played like a donk, but if you see this kind of action from a player with a brain you are crushed fold.

[xorbie]

Pushing is bad if he only has a set here. It's fine if he's going to fold a lot of hands he has (which he will). He could easily be raising here with a non-nut flush and fold, or even fold the nut flush draw from time to time (which is, needless to say, very very good).

Against a set you are about 45% so it's +EV to call at this point given how much is already in the pot, and against two pair you are a favorite. Most hands that have Hero in really bad shape (AK[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], AQ[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]) are going to be raising PF, so you really only have to worry about AT[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], which is really one combination of cards.

[xorbie]

Also, just wanted to add that the hands he is most likely to fold (something like KQ[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Kx[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] if he is willing to limp that or even the nut flush draw) are the ones Hero is most concerned about, whereas the current nuts (97) is actually a dog to hero. Folding here with the odds and equity you have is poor play, IMO, and just calling lets you lose the most to a higher flush draw and not win the most from a set/straight.

[xorbie]

So I decided to actually run this through Pokerstove. Here we go. Against made hands:

41,580 games 0.030 secs 1,386,000 games/sec

Board: Tc 8h 6h
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 50.3944 % [ 00.50 00.00 ] { AA-TT, 88, 66, 97s, 97o }
Hand 2: 49.6056 % [ 00.49 00.00 ] { Jh9h }

---



Against big draws:

990 games 0.020 secs 49,500 games/sec

Board: Tc 8h 6h
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 71.1111 % [ 00.71 00.00 ] { AhTh }
Hand 2: 28.8889 % [ 00.29 00.00 ] { Jh9h }

990 games 0.010 secs 99,000 games/sec

Board: Tc 8h 6h
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 43.5354 % [ 00.44 00.00 ] { Th7h }
Hand 2: 56.4646 % [ 00.56 00.00 ] { Jh9h }

990 games 0.010 secs 99,000 games/sec

Board: Tc 8h 6h
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) / tie (%)

Hand 1: 28.0808 % [ 00.28 00.00 ] { 7h5h }
Hand 2: 71.9192 % [ 00.72 00.00 ] { Jh9h }


Doesn't really look too bad.

[fimbulwinter]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
party 5/10 1000nl 6-handed
1000 stacks around

My third hand, no reads, dealt j [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in SB.
fold, call, call, call call check... friendly pot.
Flop 10 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] pot:$48
I bet out $45, folds to villain who RR to $125. I consider doing something drastic, but donkcall.
turn J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], pot: $298
I check, villain bets $200, i think and move allin for $855 total.

I'm a buffoon?

and...
<font color="white"> villain flips over black Q Q and the river bricks me. Woot! </font>

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't get it... what does "river bricks me" mean? did you hit your flush? 2 pair? a set?

think you played the hand pretty poorly... but all is well that ends well. oh yeah, red sox rule.

[/ QUOTE ]

this post is funny, nh

fim

[Kripke]

This is very wrong. I'll let others elaborate.

- Kripke

[ethan]

One thing that hasn't been discussed much - I think pushing the turn is much more likely to get a fold then an overbet push on the flop. Pushing the flop represents exactly the hand that we're holding (a big draw) and thus is likely going to lead people to play correctly against us. The turn checkraise looks much more like a big made hand.

As it happens, we're exactly 50% with 68/T8 on the turn, and there's some chance those get laid down here. This is a very scary board for an overpair, and those will get laid down here more than they would on the flop. It's likely better flush draws check behind on the turn but on the chance villain's holding those we'd rather get the money in now. (We're 63% vs AK/AQ/KQ [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] on the turn, and we're not getting much action from them on the river unless we're behind.)

So, make a note on your opponent and move on to the next hand.

[ginko]

[ QUOTE ]
first this is an unraised pot, lets keep that in mind. second, hero lead, v raise, hero push, is a disaster. we are a somewhat favorite to a naked pair (unless he has QQ which has two of our outs locked up so we are slight dog)AK hearts has us murdered and A 10 hearts has us by the balls. accounting for the fact you are going to be running into sets, with this action in an unraised pot, pushing becomes criminal.

Hand range....AA KK QQ JJ 101010 888 666 Axs A10s 97.
aa kk unlikely b/c no raise JJ we are ahead (or any random pair) 97 we are ahead,,,,thats it QQ we are slightly behind b/c it locks up two of our str8 outs, sets have us in bad shape and the big suited aces are rock crushers....push this flop if you hate money.
fold to flop raise and move on.

[/ QUOTE ]


What about folding equity? Isn't that one of the great things about suited connectors and suited 1 gappers?

Sure this is a EV- move if your opponent knows your hand, but pushing the flop gives your opponent a chance to lay down the best hand. And if he calls you can improve.

What hands is villian reraising with? Any draw, any pair or overpair looking for information.

[ginko]

BTW, why not push the flop? Is the lead-allin too standard of a play to work? Will the opponent know you are drawing?


My understanding was that, when you lead out, you WANT to get raised so you can get it allin. This is a monster draw, yes?

[arod15]

anyone who likes the redsox is a baffon. q10 sucks you should have moved in on the flop open ended and a flush draw. Push it there on the flop not on the turn when you could already be drawing dead. So im assuming he had q10 of hearts .... Well thats unlcuky