Scare card gets there - That's a good thing right?

[pokerhooker]

[ QUOTE ]
I actually liked my hand the whole way

[/ QUOTE ]

Heh, at some point you have to not like your hand:

1) on the flop, his raise is an ace, or at least can beat your 5
2) on the turn, your 5 just leapfrogged an ace, but why is he capping?
3) on the river, flush draw got there

All the betting just seems like a fast-played set, 33... but then it's sounding like your value river check-raise worked and your hand was good.

[Lestat]

Well as elindauer pointed out, my 3-bet on the flop might have got him to misread my hand for a pair of aces, A3, or maybe an ace with a club draw. Now if he has a 5, he's gotta love it. This could promote a little extra action on the turn.

I won't say if I won or lost yet. I'm not Mason.. I do post hands that I lose. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] In fact, I only post hands where I questioned my play. Usually they are losers, but not all of them.

[Lestat]

Wouldn't you sometimes play an ace with a club draw the same way (as I did)?

[BradL]

The river looks to be a situation where you can checkraise to save bets when you are behind, he certainly shouldnt have clubs in his hand very often given his prior action. Im oddly comfortable with every street.

-Brad

[Justin A]

Looks good to me. I think you'll see a worse 5 the majority of the time.

[Mempho]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi Lestat,

I'm not a fan of your preflop call, in the worst position with an easily dominated hand. Your flop 3-bet is aggressive but I like it, the SB may well raise any pair there, and you beat most of those holdings.



[/ QUOTE ]

OK...let's back up here for a second. I realize this thread is more or less about how to play the river and I've read the whole thing and I've played the river in a similar situation both ways.

There's still something I don't get here. You have 3 small bets in the pot and bet with middle pair into the pot (which I like and endorse) but you get raised by the BB (who could have an ace, but he could also driving out the limper or forcing the limper to show his hand).

Now, when the BB raises, you decide to 3-bet. I would like to know why. If this is a value play, I would perceive it to be pretty slim.

Are you merely trying to get some information here? Because if it gets 4-bet here, you have 10 small bets in the pot, meaning that you have to call to try to catch trips/2 pair even if he turned an ace over. So you call, making the pot 11 small bets and 5.5 big bets. Now, the play is easy if you hit a K or a 5...but if you don't, you check and he bets...putting 6.5 BB in the pot.

Now, the pot is laying you 6.5 to 1. If you put him on an ace, you roughly 10 to 1, right? It seems to be an easy fold...but, what if he would do this with an Ace or better and a flush draw. Now, your odds are getting a lot closer and you don't really want to surrender your equity in the pot.

However, if you call the turn, you pretty much have to call the river for one more bet.

On the other hand...if he just calls your 3-bet and you lead out on the turn, there are 5.5 BB in the pot and then he raises, you are up to 7.5 BB.

OTOH, if you just call the flop raise, there are only 3.5BB in the pot. Maybe you could lead and fold to a raise getting only 4.5 to 1?


What exactly am I missing here about this play????? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[Nightwish]

I really dislike the preflop call. The limper would have to be pretty bad to make it right.

The flop bet is fine, and the 3-bet is fine too....occasionally, and only if you think your opponent is capable of folding 77/66.

The turn sure looks like a great card for you, but I would be worried when he caps. You now need to seriously contemplate whether you're behind to a flopped straight or a turned full house. Of course, you have to call, but your hand is no longer as strong as you thought before.

Given all that, the river check-raise doesn't look +EV to me.

[DpR]

On the flop BB doesn't cap. There is good chance he wants to raise the turn already - that means pretty strong hand - A5, A3, 33, 24, 35, all possible. I do not think something like a10 is playing it this way, and when the turn comes I think we can eliminate most of those hands, unless he is laggy.

To me the turn raise and cap has to be trip 5's AT WORST. I do not think a Ax clubs is going crazy there at all, unless he is crazy. You certainly make it clear by your 3 bet that you can beat any Ace, and it seems you have a 5 - yet he caps anyway. If we go back the the flop range - A3 is counterfeited, so that is out, A5, 24, 33, 35 all possible. While other hands with 5's in them would rasie and cap, it is not obvious they would raise the flop AND there is reason to be nervous about a better 5 after your three bet. I certainly cannot discount a random 5 completely, but I think it is less likley then the above range. So ugh, you are behind all those hands. Yes, the river brings a scare card but that only scares 24, which to me is the least likley of the 4 hands. I think you lost to a boat here.

I would check call the river. I just do not think you are ahead here enough. Of course this all assumes this is not one of those players that gets a little crazy in shorthanded pots.

[Lestat]

<font color="red"> and it seems you have a 5 </font>

What about my flop play would make him put me on a 5? Especially if HE has one?

<font color="red">While other hands with 5's in them would rasie and cap, it is not obvious they would raise the flop... </font>

Don't forget an A53 flop is a pretty standard bluff bet for most small blinds in this situation, since a sb would have no reason to think anyone has an ace and might easily pick up the pot unconstested. Now an aggressive bb might try a re-steal with a wide variety of hands. This happens all the time.

<font color="red">...AND there is reason to be nervous about a better 5 after your three bet. </font>

There is no better 5 than K5, unless it's a full house.

[Lestat]

<font color="red"> I really dislike the preflop call. The limper would have to be pretty bad to make it right. </font>

K5 is certainly playable against a random big blind hand and what if the limper is very predictable?