Rafael Palmeiro

[CD56]

He was consistently the 2nd or 3rd best player at an offensively stacked position in the AL. Mo Vaughn/Frank Thomas/Tino/Thome all took turns at the top, but Palmiero was there, year in year out.

[Uston]

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Did people say the same thing about Eddie Murray? I sure missed it.

There are plenty of players in the Hall of Fame, deserving players, who were never the best in their league. They performed so consistently excellent that they outlasted everyone who was better than them.

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It's too bad that Bobby Abreu got a relatively late start to his career or he'd be following this exact same path to the Hall.

[pryor15]

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He has been top five in MVP voting only once!

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but was top 20 10 times.

the thing is, the people who vote for the MVP are the same idiots who vote for the Hall. the problem i have with the "so and so was a top 5 MVP candidate 6 times..." arguement is that is based on a vote that's very subjective, and therefore flawed. personally, i'd be much more comfortable w/ knowing how many times he was top 5 in the AL VORP than MVP voting.

in their HOF monitor, baseball-reference.com has him at 156.0. likely HOFer>100

[Jack of Arcades]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Did people say the same thing about Eddie Murray? I sure missed it.

There are plenty of players in the Hall of Fame, deserving players, who were never the best in their league. They performed so consistently excellent that they outlasted everyone who was better than them.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's too bad that Bobby Abreu got a relatively late start to his career or he'd be following this exact same path to the Hall.

[/ QUOTE ]

Full-time starter at 24 is "relatively late?" (Relative to who, Mantle?) I have Abreu right on the HOF path.

[Jack of Arcades]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He has been top five in MVP voting only once!

[/ QUOTE ]

but was top 20 10 times.

the thing is, the people who vote for the MVP are the same idiots who vote for the Hall. the problem i have with the "so and so was a top 5 MVP candidate 6 times..." arguement is that is based on a vote that's very subjective, and therefore flawed. personally, i'd be much more comfortable w/ knowing how many times he was top 5 in the AL VORP than MVP voting.

in their HOF monitor, baseball-reference.com has him at 156.0. likely HOFer>100

[/ QUOTE ]

Nitpick... that's Bill James's metric.

Palmeiro puts out plenty of top-20 seasons, but I think 1991 is the only year he was in the top 5 in the AL in VORP...

[Uston]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Did people say the same thing about Eddie Murray? I sure missed it.

There are plenty of players in the Hall of Fame, deserving players, who were never the best in their league. They performed so consistently excellent that they outlasted everyone who was better than them.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's too bad that Bobby Abreu got a relatively late start to his career or he'd be following this exact same path to the Hall.

[/ QUOTE ]

Full-time starter at 24 is "relatively late?" (Relative to who, Mantle?) I have Abreu right on the HOF path.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, relative to Murray (21) and Palmeiro (almost 900 AB's before turning 24). And that's also assuming that Abreu's listed age is legit. For a guy who walks a lot and doesn't hit a ton of HR's, it's going to be very difficult for Abreu to get the countable stats that will get him into the HOF.

[[censored]]

Can't see how you keep him out.

However for some reason when I think of great players his name does not come to mind like it does with others who have similar numbers.

[Triumph36]

Ted Williams and Ernie Banks were clearly two of the best players in baseball history, but they played during a different time and for one team. Palmeiro plays in an era where he can choose his team, and where trades are relatively common. He still hasn't even made a World Series. This is not a ridiculous criterion, though I admit with the Yankees' recent dominance, it is less important than if several different franchises were winning it.

Whoever cited Jimmie Foxx: Foxx had some of the greatest seasons in major league history. Both players played with great lineup protection. But Foxx has 3 MVP awards, Palmiero has 0 and hasn't even come close to one.

Palmiero is the Mike Gartner of major league baseball.

[Jack of Arcades]

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Ted Williams and Ernie Banks were clearly two of the best players in baseball history, but they played during a different time and for one team. Palmeiro plays in an era where he can choose his team, and where trades are relatively common.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is [censored] ridiculous. When players go to the Yankees, they're mercenaries, but when someone else signs with a worse team they're greedy players that don't care about winning.

There are 1/3 more teams from the Ernie Banks era and now you have to go through three times as many teams to win a world series. There are plenty of superstars that have never and will never win a WS in this era.

[ QUOTE ]
Whoever cited Jimmie Foxx: Foxx had some of the greatest seasons in major league history. Both players played with great lineup protection. But Foxx has 3 MVP awards, Palmiero has 0 and hasn't even come close to one.

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I cited Jimmie Foxx because he played in a more offensive-friendly era than Raffy, which was one of the points brought up against Palmeiro.

Seriously, some people are acting like Raffy was only slightly above average for 20 years. Raffy was consistently a top 5 1B and a top 50 player for for over a decade... he was a great player and lasted a lot longer than any of his peers while putting up very good numbers.

[Dynasty]

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Palmeiro has been remarkably consistent but has never been one of the best players in his league.

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Actually, he was one of the best first basemen in the league for about a decade.

He also won three gold gloves in '97, '98, and '99. Although, I believe the '99 win was a complete joke. He only played about 20 games at 1B that year and won the award on his reputation.