Daily Hand Post: play along in a marginal situation

[Paxosmotic]

While you should have folded the flop, a series of decisions led us to this, and now you should bet. If the big blind raises like I'm almost certain he will, fold if there's a caller between you. I probably fold on the river as well.

[Justin A]

I call on the flop with the intention of re-evaluating on the turn.

Turn checked to you, easy easy bet. Especially since you picked up a backdoor flush draw. (J/K [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img])

[Luv2DriveTT]

[ QUOTE ]
I call on the flop with the intention of re-evaluating on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? The pot is not huge, no reason to continue on the flop. I'd like to hear your reasoning. Besides straight draws that contain a 5 and a 6, there are no other draws available. I don't like this flop at all.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[jgorham]

Haven't read other responses, cause Jason always updates the hand and makes me have results oriented thinking! I am calling this flop, with the plan of seeing where I am on the turn. I have a pair (and backdoor straight draw) on a board where people are going to call with overcards, so there is a good chance I am ahead. The pot is decent, so I am staying in at this point.

I can't raise the flop because it won't protect my hand, and this hand has poor reverse implied odds. Further, a raise here will make the hand significantly harder to play on the turn - if it got checked to you it could be because someone is planning a checkraise. But if you flat call, and the action goes bet fold fold, then I could find a raise there.

So call.

[jgorham]

To everyone who said fold this flop: If you are going to fold on this board with that action, why are you calling 57s in the first place? And don't say the hand isn't worth a call preflop, cause Clarkmeister will bust some heads.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
Haven't read other responses, cause Jason always updates the hand and makes me have results oriented thinking! I am calling this flop, with the plan of seeing where I am on the turn. I have a pair (and backdoor straight draw) on a board where people are going to call with overcards, so there is a good chance I am ahead. The pot is decent, so I am staying in at this point.

I can't raise the flop because it won't protect my hand, and this hand has poor reverse implied odds. Further, a raise here will make the hand significantly harder to play on the turn - if it got checked to you it could be because someone is planning a checkraise. But if you flat call, and the action goes bet fold fold, then I could find a raise there.

So call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Beautiful; you saved me the trouble of having to elaborate later as this is exactly what I was thinking on the flop. And it's nice to Justin A and you supporting the call now since the first few responses and the conversations I had over AIM about the hand all said fold the flop.

Also, why are people folding on a flop like this after limping with 57s?

[Buck_65]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Haven't read other responses, cause Jason always updates the hand and makes me have results oriented thinking! I am calling this flop, with the plan of seeing where I am on the turn. I have a pair (and backdoor straight draw) on a board where people are going to call with overcards, so there is a good chance I am ahead. The pot is decent, so I am staying in at this point.

I can't raise the flop because it won't protect my hand, and this hand has poor reverse implied odds. Further, a raise here will make the hand significantly harder to play on the turn - if it got checked to you it could be because someone is planning a checkraise. But if you flat call, and the action goes bet fold fold, then I could find a raise there.

So call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Beautiful; you saved me the trouble of having to elaborate later as this is exactly what I was thinking on the flop. And it's nice to Justin A and you supporting the call now since the first few responses and the conversations I had over AIM about the hand all said fold the flop.

Also, why are people folding on a flop like this after limping with 57s?

[/ QUOTE ]

This isn't really reasoning to call at all. Vague phrases like "the pot is decent" and "I call with the intention of seeing where I am on the turn" are not sufficient IMO. Why do you call this flop?

[Luv2DriveTT]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, why are people folding on a flop like this after limping with 57s?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't limp on the button with 57s unless I have 3 limpers already in the pot. Am I giving up a marginal opportunity? Perhaps, but the pot size doesn't warrant the risk. I should have mentioned that in my previous post, sorry... [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[jgorham]

Let me clarify:

Pot is decent - I am getting 8 to 1 on a call here, which means I don't have to win the pot particularly often for a call to be +ev.

"Intention of seeing the turn and reevaluating" - The action in front of me on the turn (and sb's action on flop) will give a much better indication as to how likely our hand is ahead. A flop call (or even bet) by any of these players here could be any sorts of hands: overcards, draw, or a big hand waiting to raise the turn. Pocket pairs aren't as likely here, as most players will raise this flop with their overpair to protect. Not to mention there was no preflop raising.

Further, your position on the turn significaly reduces your reverse implied odds, which are the only real reason to fold this hand on the flop. If you hit a 7 on the turn, but it is raised in front of you, you can still fold. It is very hard for your hand to be trapped here, as you have all that extra information (thanks position!). The only way you lose extra bets is if you improve to a straight draw, but this is a +ev situation in the first place.

[Jake (The Snake)]

Just because you hit a pair and there are cards around your cards doesn't mean this is a good flop for you.

And yes, I would play 75s from LP. This isn't the kind of flop + action I'm looking for when I do it though.