Liberals

[ptmusic]

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Those who want to have an abortion can just drive to another state and have that procedure done.

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That's not so easy for some for various reasons, including privacy issues, time issues, and family and work related issues. And it's discriminatory against the poor.

Why don't we just let them eat cake, too?

-ptmusic

[ACPlayer]

Prohibiting abortions is like prohibiting drinking alcohol in that the activity will continue but simply go underground.

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Prohibiting abortions is like prohibiting drinking alcohol in that the activity will continue but simply go underground.

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You would agree though that is not a good arguement for whether not something should be legal or not? The arguement being that people will break the law.

Also in your opinion if abortion were made illegal in state X, do you think the number of abortions performed in state X would increase, decrease or remain the same?

[ACPlayer]

Actually it is an important pragmatic argument for keeping abortions legal.

That abortions are amoral is an important though idealist argument for making abortions illegal.

Both sides are right.

Both sides by taking extreme positions are increasing the numbers of abortions.

Both sides are wrong.

[[censored]]

OK so are you saying that because people will break a law, there should be serious thought as to whether or not the law should exist? If so I agree with that.

I go back and forth on abortion and have for the last 3-4 years. I should say I do polictically, my own beliefs are stead fast. At the same time it is one of my least important issues when backing a candidate.

Currently I am of the belief that it is best left up to the states so that each populace can decide for themselves what is best.

[ACPlayer]

OK so are you saying that because people will break a law, there should be serious thought as to whether or not the law should exist? If so I agree with that.

We are both made from the same mold.

I have done and completed the back and forth. The seminal quote for me was "abortions should be safe, legal, and rare". Both sides should make this a priority and work hard to achieve it.

Incidentally, the quote was from a democrat, who was labelled as liberal but really was as close to a true centrist as we have had in a long time and was the 42nd president of the USA.

[pryor15]

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Again, i am not political. What is the big deal about a convservative judge being appointed? From a liberals standpoint.

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the short answer? overly conservative judges retard the natural progression of society. without liberal judges we wouldn't have a lot of the social justice laws we have now (women/blacks being able to vote, gay rights, discrimination laws, etc) that are pretty much essential.

[natedogg]

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[ QUOTE ]
Prohibiting abortions is like prohibiting drinking alcohol in that the activity will continue but simply go underground.

[/ QUOTE ]

You would agree though that is not a good arguement for whether not something should be legal or not? The arguement being that people will break the law.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, it's a good argument.

If the point of the law is to prohibit a behaviour, and the existence of the law will not significantly prohibit that behaviour, passing the law is a stupid approach to dealing with that behaviour. Especially if the social cost of enforcement is as high or higher as the social cost of the behaviour in question.

Think drug war.

natedogg

[Felix_Nietsche]

overly conservative judges retard the natural progression of society. without liberal judges we wouldn't have a lot of the social justice laws we have now (women/blacks being able to vote, gay rights, discrimination laws, etc) that are pretty much essential.
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I don't accept your premise that liberal judges did the things you claim. Lets look at each claim.

1. Women being able to vote:
Judges had NOTHING to do with this. ELECTED leaders from the State and Federal Govt passed an amendment to the constitution. This amendment was 100% legal so conservative/originalist judges would support this. It is when courts make up new laws on the bench which bypasses the voters which I find disturbing.

2. Blacks being able to vote:
Again, judges had NOTHING to do with this. Again it was ELECTED leaders which made this happen.

3. Gay Rights
Gays have the same rights as anyone else so I'm not sure what your talking about.
If your referring to marriage the last time I heard gays still have the right to marry someone of the opposite sex. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

4. Discrimination Laws:
These laws were passed by Congress so I don't understand why you are giving judges credit. Perhaps you are referring to the quota system aka Affirmative Action. If so, you are correct. Liberal judges said it is OK to discriminate against whites in favor of blacks. This is not something I would be bragging about but to each his own.

I'm surprised you did not credit liberal judges for ending WW2, curing polio, and creating world peace. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[pryor15]

those laws would never have been passed had it not been for the intervention of judges at points along the way. MLK was constantly in court, for example, getting court orders, injunctions, etc.