when is it correct to call on the button?

[bottomset]

you got an equity edge, position and are playing against really bad players

uh raise

[aces_dad]

There is a discussion of this topic in SSHE, and you're idea is a correct one. There are indeed times where it may be correct to give up a small preflop equity edge to increase the chances of opponents making mistakes after the flop.

If you've got a hand that plays well multiway like J-10s and above, this hand should be raised into a large field to give you the odds to draw to a gutshot and/or backdoor flush draw on the flop.

If you've got a hand that is weaker like A-Jo, while you do have some pre-flop equity against the weaker limpers, since this hand depends upon High card strength more, it may be better to limp, and wait until the flop to raise the hand if you hit TPTK for example. In this case the pair of J's is extremly vulnerable and the preflop raise will make it often correct for all opponents to draw on the flop for one bet.

I also find it's easier to give up weak draws with these semi-good hands when the pot is smaller which is another reason why limping on the button could be the correct play. Note, I'm talking about simply good hands here. I always raise the best hands when faced with many limpers in this situation.

[Fantam]

This is straight from HEFAP

[ QUOTE ]
When you hold big unsuited cards, your opponents are getting implied odds from you. Therefore, it is wrong to raise with unsuited high cards in multiway pots, and it may be right to fold hands like AT,KT, and even AJ and KJ.

Specifically, if you hold KTo on the button, and five or six players have limped in, you should strongly consider folding. Raising with this hand - which is a mistake frequently made by beginning players - will cost you money in the long run. Even calling might be wrong for all but the best players.

[/ QUOTE ]

So it appears that your reasoning is along the right lines.

[car ramrod]

I also think my reasoning is on the right track.

But, the hard part is deciding when it is correct to call and when it is correct to limp. I guess it depends on the players in the game. If they will limp decent hands, like KQ or even AQ, which is not that uncommon. Then by me raising into a field of 6 or 7 with say AJ or KJ, I may not actually have the equity edge I think I have.

[pryor15]

seems to me that by raising in this situation, what you're essentially doing is giving the blinds a chance to make a mistake. the SB, for example, will call almost any 2 cards w/ 6 limpers, b/c he's getting 15:1 to see the flop, and the BB will get infininte odds, but if you raise, you cut those odds down a bit and increase the chances that a) they make a mistake, and b) they don't hit a lucky flop w/ their 72o.

plus, by raising you put yourself in control of the hand and it's much easier to see what sort of shape you're in by the time the flop comes around to you. (i.e. people have different motives for betting into a PFR on the flop before he acts). and hey, you might see the turn for free.

[VoraciousReader]

I was going to quote Small Stakes Hold'Em, but then I realized I wanted to type most of 2 pages. So instead, let me direct you to pages 73 and 74.

VR(who routinely thinks about poker at bedtime, much to the irritation of her SO)

[istewart]

[ QUOTE ]
I've been thinking about this lately. So far this is what I have came up with:

In the past I would raise KQo or AJo on the button no questions asked. But lets say there are 4 or 5 limpers to you and the blinds are very loose. So we can expect at least 7 people to see the flop.

I think this is a good spot to call rather than raise. My reasoning is as follows:

KQ or AJ are great hands, but offsuit they mainly rely on tpgk to win. With 6 or 7 people in the hand tpgk's chance of winning goes down. So if you raise you are bloating the pot, as most of the time everyone will call the raise as there already in for 1 bet. By bloating the pot you are letting gutshots and other 4 or 5 outers call you correctly. By just calling pf, you now keep the pot a little smaller and have a better chance of protecting your hand, or at least you can make people make mistakes by calling with out the odds.

This maybe common knowledge to some, but I have just lately thought about the reasoning behind it.

Also, if this is the correct play, how good of a hand do you want to raise in this spot, or how low do you go with a call vs a raise.

thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

I still tend to raise. However, your reasoning is good. If you know the limpers not to be completely terrible I think calling becomes the better alternative (with KQ and AJ). Given the same situation, I would be more inclined to raise in the CO or hijack than on the button.