They Showed It -- WPT Champ. KcJc

[Rushmore]

[ QUOTE ]
It looked like an honest mistake to me. I've made the same mistake (and much worse mistakes) plenty of times.

I think a lot of people are looking too hard for any evidence of soft play or whatever and seeing things that aren't really there.

[/ QUOTE ]

When you see that and you consider that one player owned a large portion of the other (or did each own a piece of the other?), it looks exponentially more suspicious.

Did you know there was a business agreement between the two? If so, how can you possibly say that it isn't a suspicious sequence?

[Paradigm]

I believe Hasan owned a piece of Tuan, since people say he put Hasan into the Foxwoods event, which freerolled him into the 25K Championship.

[The Ocho]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It looked like an honest mistake to me. I've made the same mistake (and much worse mistakes) plenty of times.

I think a lot of people are looking too hard for any evidence of soft play or whatever and seeing things that aren't really there.

[/ QUOTE ]

When you see that and you consider that one player owned a large portion of the other (or did each own a piece of the other?), it looks exponentially more suspicious.

Did you know there was a business agreement between the two? If so, how can you possibly say that it isn't a suspicious sequence?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, what was the agreement exactly? Is it something other than the usual staking/cross-booking/whatever else that is common in tournament poker? Is there any reason to believe there is foul play here other than this vague business agreement rumor?

Tuan and Hasan seemed to mix it up quite a bit from what we saw. And it looked like legitimate playing, not elaborate chip dumping or anything like that.

[Paradigm]

[ QUOTE ]
Tuan and Hasan seemed to mix it up quite a bit from what we saw. And it looked like legitimate playing, not elaborate chip dumping or anything like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hesitate to write these things because even over the internet, I don't want to defame someone, but there are some hands that just could not be folded. Imagine if they just never entered a pot with one another (while the WHOLE thing, hole cards and all, is being filmed).

Now, imagine you're Hasan, knowing that if you bust Tuan in 3rd, you earn substantially less on your investment than if you bust him in 2nd (I don't know if anybody knows the percentages). Simultaneously, you are playing to win the tournament and in the back of your mind, you know you win a couple hundred thousand more (it has to be at least that much) if Tuan places 2nd. That KJ shrivels up just a bit, doesn't it?

Meanwhile, I have never really disliked a poker player, but I don't like Tuan. He got lucky plenty at Foxwoods, and he criticizes Paul saying he had "sucked out all week." I think he played far recklessly this episode but nontheless, his constant "jeez" comments get under my skin. What a tool.

[ed8383]

Is it just me or did Hasan give a little bit too many awkward male hugs to Tuan Lee?? and Hasan going all in with q6 that looked like such an obvious chip dump to Tuan.

[Paradigm]

"this guy has like, 20 million lives!"

damn, he's rich though.

[Paradigm]

at the conclusion, Hasan and Tuan: "We did it, buddy!" "We did it, man!"

[Rushmore]

[ QUOTE ]
at the conclusion, Hasan and Tuan: "We did it, buddy!" "We did it, man!"

[/ QUOTE ]

I know.

I mean, good lord--talk about an elaborate series of clues.

Ultimately, I still doubt there was any actual cheating.

The problem is a situation like this one, where the possibility is so readily available, and any proof is so mercurial. I mean, if they didn't cheat, they sure looked like they did, and if they DID cheat, there's nothing definitive.

DISCLAIMER: I am not trying to defame anyone. These are simple observations made after watching the thing on television. (Maybe the functional word there is "simple.")

[Moonsugar]

I think the piece was 50% for 10,000. Read that in Cardplayer. Paul Phillips blog article about it is very good.

[Hold'me]

Yeah, way too much male bonding for me after Hasan got busted out. I believe they both traded 50% of each other and there were numerous moments that were very suspect. I'm not saying that Tuan & Hasan flat-out colluded but it was hard not to sense a degree of soft-playing on Hasan's part. His verbal mistake of calling followed by saying all-in was either an inexcusable blunder from a pro with over 15 years of tournament playing experience or a clever soft-play tactic.

I mean what's +EV for Hasan in that spot. Obviously either him or Tuan taking 1st & 2nd in either order. The problem is that there's very little the WPT can do to police those kinds of arrangements except just frown upon them. Just my two cents.