Let's get it started: USA vs. Europe

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No easy answers.

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Sure there is. [censored] continental Europe, you've been a blight on this world for to long. GO USA!!!!

[shots]

Again you live outside the real world I didn't say that if we just cut spending china would take over the world but you do love your straw man arguments. What I did say is that if we cut spending to the point where our military dwindled to the level of some europeen countries sooner or later the chinese would realise they could take over the US and once that happend they would seize that oppertunity as the only superpower left in the world. I know you think that would never happen because we could just be nicer to them and then they would leave us alone but that's not how the real world works.

[kurto]

Well, I certainly don't contest that Europeans choose to (if you will) work to live as opposed to live to work. It is a choice they've made as a society. (though I don't think its necessarily a choice individuals can make... I think there are people living in America who can't realistically make the choice Europeans have... ie, they can't decide to work 35 hours a week, take 6 week vacations and 'enjoy' their lives. I don't doubt that there are many people working 60 hours a week struggling to make ends meet... but this is neither here nor there.)

The guy just cracks me up because he peppers his posts with little bits of concentrated nonsense. He's made some argument in another thread that people have to commute longer in nations that are bigger... yet there is no evidence to support this (and its a completely illogical premise... it doesn't take into accounts any of the real factors which effect commute times)

I have no doubt he can occasionally say something sensible. But those nuggets are sprinkled amongst really bizarre nonsensicall statements.

[lastchance]

Nukes exist right now. Until some anti-nuke system happens, the only way any country is taking over the world is through economics and culture. Military spending against economic takeover and subterfuge is very weak.

[hetron]

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No easy answers.

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Sure there is. [censored] continental Europe, you've been a blight on this world for to long. GO USA!!!!

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didn't you used to post under the name samoldsht? your posts have almost exactly the same contents.

[hetron]

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If things were so bad over there, we would be seeing tons of immigrants from Western Europe these days. That immigration isn't happening, generally because people from there don't want to leave to come here

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There is no flood of European immigrants because western Europeans are disappearing due to the worlds lowest birthrate and are being replaced by immigrants from the middle east and north Africa

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The average European works to live, the average American lives to work. On average I would say European workers are happier working less hours, with more frequent vacations, in exchange for a slightly lower salary in comparison with their American coworkers.


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i think this also has a lot to do with the low birthrate of western Europeans. Americans want to work hard and earn lots of money to give their kids everything they need and want. Europeans would rather not have kids and get 3 extra weeks of vacation a year

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Low birthrate or not, there are still at least 300 million plus western europeans around, and i don't think too many of them are in a rush to come over to the US.

As for the average birth rate, the birth rate in america is highest among people of middle lower and lower socioeconomic status. Among american of middle class and upper class, the birth rate approaches (but is not quite as low as) the overall european birth rate.

[hetron]

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The European model works well for the present. But it is unable to adapt. It can't meet the challenge of global capitalism and the inflow of new labor from previously socialist countries (China, India, Eastern Europe). It's anti-immigration stance has also lead to an aging population. The problem with Europe isn't the present, it's the future.

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Anti immigration stance? What country are you talking about? France? Britain? The Netherlands? Germany? Most of these countries have had a tremendous inflow of immigration in the last 10-15 years.

[hetron]

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Again you live outside the real world I didn't say that if we just cut spending china would take over the world but you do love your straw man arguments. What I did say is that if we cut spending to the point where our military dwindled to the level of some europeen countries sooner or later the chinese would realise they could take over the US and once that happend they would seize that oppertunity as the only superpower left in the world. I know you think that would never happen because we could just be nicer to them and then they would leave us alone but that's not how the real world works.

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You are talking about the 'real world' and 'straw man arguments'? And you have the audacity to say that Europe isn't going to be taken over because the US is there to protect it??? Do you really believe that?

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Sam, while I agree with you that there are no easy answers about which is the better economic model, i think you can make a strong argument that current european model benefits the average european worker more than the american model benefits the average american worker. How that will bear out in the future is debatable. However, I was just trying to point out that many of the posters who are constantly clamoring that the "european nanny state model" has failed would be surprised to know that many workers in that "failed model" actually LIKE working less and having more vacation time, thank you very much.

[shots]

The US protects what's in it's own best intrest of course it would protect any europeen country that was invaded by outside forces because it's in our best intrest.