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#13
06-17-2005, 02:36 AM
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Re: Hi! I\'m Weak Tight
I don't generally agree with capping JJ either. There's a significant chance of being outflopped, and then there's the possibility of being up against a bigger pair too. It's a strong hand still, but not something I want to build a mountain of a pot ontop of.
Maybe that's a bit weak, but I'm not comfortable building a massive pot with a hand that stands a decent chance of being ruined at some point. 
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#14
06-17-2005, 02:44 AM
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Re: Hi! I\'m Weak Tight
[ QUOTE ]
I don't generally agree with capping JJ either. There's a significant chance of being outflopped, and then there's the possibility of being up against a bigger pair too. It's a strong hand still, but not something I want to build a mountain of a pot ontop of. Maybe that's a bit weak, but I'm not comfortable building a massive pot with a hand that stands a decent chance of being ruined at some point. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, it's a bit weak. Consider the following: 1) Does *NOT* capping change the dynamics of the hand very much? If it does, is it in your favor or against you? 2) Does not building a massive pot change the chances of your hand being ruined at some point? 3) How does the fact that there are extra players in the hand (with hands almost certainly worse than yours) hanging around affect your decision?
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#15
06-17-2005, 02:55 AM
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Re: Hi! I\'m Weak Tight
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, it's a bit weak. Consider the following: 1) Does *NOT* capping change the dynamics of the hand very much? If it does, is it in your favor or against you? 2) Does not building a massive pot change the chances of your hand being ruined at some point? 3) How does the fact that there are extra players in the hand (with hands almost certainly worse than yours) hanging around affect your decision? [/ QUOTE ] All good points. I understand what you're saying, so I took a shot at giving some answers. 1) Not capping means you don't take the initiative on the flop, which means you'll probably get bet into. This can be for you or against you. For you: You don't give away your hand, and if the 3-bettor is behind you and you flop a set or overpair, you can easily trap the field for extra bets. Against you: People are less likely to back off to your aggression and more likely to hang around to draw out on you. 2) No, but it affects the odds that many of the hands that will ruin you have to keep chasing that gutshot or 2 outer, forcing them to make a bigger mistake by chasing. With a smaller pot, they may either chase incorrectly, or not chase at all, which improves both your value and your chances of winning. 3) This improves our value, but only in preflop expectation. Postflop, those hands which were calling our raises with much the worst of it may have hit the flop hard, or even soft (they can then hit the turn or river). With many such hands against us, their combined equity postflop can lower our postflop equity significantly, especially since any half-baked draw will have odds to see the turn and probably the river too. So in conclusion: You're probably correct that not capping is giving up some value from bad hands, but JJ is still not a hand I'm wanting to back with everything.
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#16
06-17-2005, 10:52 AM
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Re: Hi! I\'m Weak Tight
I bet/fold the flop here a bit more than half the time depending on table texture. On some tables where a flop re-raise against a pre-flop raiser and post-flop bettor means a big hand, this gives me more information than when someone bets out because I checked.
With less players and on tight tables, I bet out almost all the time. The scare cards might knock out even a weak Q. Of course, your ck/fold on the flop saved that half bet and you didn't need to bet to get "information" that several players "loved" their hand. You're surely behind to a Q, an overpair, and perhaps a made flush, so game over.
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#17
06-17-2005, 11:03 AM
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Re: Hi! I\'m Weak Tight
[ QUOTE ]
I don't generally agree with capping JJ either. There's a significant chance of being outflopped, and then there's the possibility of being up against a bigger pair too. It's a strong hand still, but not something I want to build a mountain of a pot ontop of. Maybe that's a bit weak, but I'm not comfortable building a massive pot with a hand that stands a decent chance of being ruined at some point. [/ QUOTE ] Would you cap AK?
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#18
06-17-2005, 11:10 AM
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Re: Hi! I\'m Weak Tight
[ QUOTE ]
Would you cap AK? [/ QUOTE ] AKo? No. AKs? Yes. The suited potential gives me that extra bit of edge that I need to confidently push for value, even if I suspect I'm up against a big pair.
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#19
06-17-2005, 11:11 AM
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Re: Hi! I\'m Weak Tight
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] JJ is not a cap hand [/ QUOTE ] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] please explain yourself, this is weaksauce [/ QUOTE ] But Ed Miller doesn't cap it!!! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I usually cap JJ. I didn't notice that the OP didn't.
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#20
06-17-2005, 11:28 AM
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Re: Hi! I\'m Weak Tight
I usually go ahead and cap preflop, especially against somebody with an 8% PFR. If I'm 3-bet by somebody with a 4% PFR, I refrain from capping. I doubt it's really that big a deal whether Hero caps on this particular hand.
This a very, very easy flop fold. You can't seriously be considering calling three cold with your underpair, can you?
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