World peace

[Olof]

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European debate has gradually moved from "should we cooperate or try to crush our opponents" to "how do we cooperate". This last referendums were about the latter. I am yet to see any Republican ask in this forum "how do we cooperate with fundamental moslems".


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Yes, if only Churchill would have chosen to cooperate with the nazis instead of attempting to crush them, then Europe would have been united a lot earlier, and we would all be speaking German.

If islamists were rational people whom you could be reason with, they never would have become fundamentalist muslims in the first place.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

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European debate has gradually moved from "should we cooperate or try to crush our opponents" to "how do we cooperate". This last referendums were about the latter. I am yet to see any Republican ask in this forum "how do we cooperate with fundamental moslems".

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There are three ways you can cooperate with "fundamentalist" Muslims, as clearly spelled out in the Koran:

1) Convert to Islam, accepting Allah as your one God, and believing that Mohammed was his messenger, and that the Koran contains the direct pure unadulterated word of Allah, which contains instructions for humankind, good for all time

OR

2) Submit to Islamic rule, be willingly subjugated by Muslims, and pay the jizya, or non-Muslim poll tax

OR

3) be killed.

Those are precisely your three choices in how you may cooperate with "fundamentalist" Muslims. Choose wisely, O infidel!

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[img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] It is not easy, I agree. I speak once in a while with fundamental moslems though since there are quite a few living in my neighbourhood, so you exaggerate a bit:

1) Even the extreme ones does not demand that everyone should convert to Islam. Not even OBL. They have some [censored]-up theories about Saudi Arabia, that no non-moslems should be allowed to be there.

2)This is also an internal Moslem thing. I.e. in Iran if you proove that you are non-Moslem (i.e. of Armenian origin) you don't have to follow Islamic law. Have not heard anyone here either demand that from Christians (they buy meat from butchers that also butcher pigs for christ's sake but mock other moslems that eat pig meat).

3) Yet to witness any such killing take place here at least.

Quote from a terrorist (according to Colin Powell) living here to underline this:

"The controversial mullah, who is currently fighting an deportation order in Norway, writes effusively about his new homeland, telling immigrant readers living here that it is a Muslim duty to maintain the laws of their new home.

Krekar thanks Norway for its protection and patience and says that Muslims gaining residency in Norway and other western nations have a holy duty to observe the laws and rules that apply there."

[Arnfinn Madsen]

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European debate has gradually moved from "should we cooperate or try to crush our opponents" to "how do we cooperate". This last referendums were about the latter. I am yet to see any Republican ask in this forum "how do we cooperate with fundamental moslems".


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, if only Churchill would have chosen to cooperate with the nazis instead of attempting to crush them, then Europe would have been united a lot earlier, and we would all be speaking German.

If islamists were rational people whom you could be reason with, they never would have become fundamentalist muslims in the first place.

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I don't disagree with D-day. I don't disagree either with bombing Al-Qaida in Afghanistan. I try to point out that their should be a dialogue with fundamental moslems, not terrorist moslems.

[MMMMMM]

I'm not exaggerating although not all Muslims demand that which was stated. The Koran however DOES demand it. And some extreme Muslims do too.

I saw an interview, on PBS I believe it was, with various Muslims--from moderates to hard-liners. And a hard-line one did indeed say that he believed the Koran literally and that he should, in the eyes of Allah, ask someone if they convert to Islam, and if not, put the sword to their neck and kill them. Point blank period. And he was very serious.

There are also imams who preach this sort of thing. The one-eyed guy in London is on record as saying it is quite OK to kill non-Muslims, because they are kafir (that is, like cattle).

So I am not exaggerating: it's exactly what the Koran says, and what some extreme Muslims believe and take to heart. Just not all Muslims.

[MMMMMM]

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I don't disagree with D-day. I don't disagree either with bombing Al-Qaida in Afghanistan. I try to point out that their should be a dialogue with fundamental moslems, not terrorist moslems.

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I too think there should be a dialogue with fundamentalist Muslims. We should tell them that their notion that Islam should get preferential treatment is a load of hogwash.

[ACPlayer]

I am glad you agree that it would be preferable to have a dialog with them. Acknowledging hubris on both sides could well be a starting point.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

If you use the Qu'ran against moslems, how could you vote for a Christian as president??? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Dig up some bible quotes, Cyrus! [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[MMMMMM]

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If you use the Qu'ran against moslems, how could you vote for a Christian as president???

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I'm not using the Koran against anyone--I'm telling you what it says, and what true fundamentalist Muslims believe, if they believe the Koran.

Also, what makes you think I voted for a Christian for President? I voted for Badnarik, the Libertarian candidate, and I think he declined to state his religious preferences publicly, saying an election should be about other things than religion.

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Dig up some bible quotes, Cyrus!

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The Bible does not lay out three choices for non-believers, as does the Koran: conversion, or submission/subjugation/paying a special tax, or being killed.

It ISN'T all parallel or mirror image--far from it.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

Ok, I judged you too early [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img].

I think the majority of fundamental moslems though only expect fellow moslems to follow these rules. Again Iran is a good example, the revolutionary council have decided that if you are Moslem and drink alcohol you can be whipped but if you are Christian you are allowed to produce your own alcohol.

[natedogg]

A one world government is the worst of all possible political options. The absolute worst. One of the few things I'd be willing to fight a war for is to stop a world government from forming.

natedogg