Wong on Dice

[tylerdurden]

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There's a guy out here named Frank Scoblete

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Scoblete seems like a borderline con artist to me. I'm pretty sure his income all comes from his writing, not his gambling. I think he just pimps stuff like this for some side income. Just a gut feeling, though.

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As it stands now, Craps is just some silly game that I don't understand hardly at all and have played with friends maybe twice (having no idea what I was doing and just following the advice of those who believe, "Woo-hoo!! Don't change those dice! They're running hot!!")

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Craps is easy. Just play the pass line with odds and scream when everyone else does. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[MicroBob]

I agree with your hunch about Scoblete....although, like you, I don't really know enough about him to say for sure.


I don't have much respect for Scoblete. The articles of his I have read have been VERY unimpressive.
I have mucho mucho respect for Wong though.

I just mentioned Scoblete because of his craps class.

Back in my pre-poker days when I was on BJ21 I saw an article of his that included some sort of advertisement that mentioned his 'advantage-craps' class. Assuming it was just some sort of progressive-betting nonsense similar to those who think you can win at roulette I posted about it on BJ21 because I thought it was a really bad con/joke.

After posting about it I was told that it probably had something to do with throwing the dice a certain way and that Wong was getting into that too and that was the first time I had heard of such a thing.




I do scream when everyone else does.
When I play with a friend I just do what he does.
"25 across!!" (which is a $5 bet on each of the 'odds' or something like that).
I make sure the dealers and everyone else is aware that I have no idea what I'm saying or doing.
That makes it more fun.
I like to do things like scream, "Woo-hoo!! A Seven!!" and then have everyone look at me and then go "Whoops. Sorry. That's bad isn't it?"

[Daliman]

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I agree with your hunch about Scoblete....although, like you, I don't really know enough about him to say for sure.


I don't have much respect for Scoblete. The articles of his I have read have been VERY unimpressive.
I have mucho mucho respect for Wong though.

I just mentioned Scoblete because of his craps class.

Back in my pre-poker days when I was on BJ21 I saw an article of his that included some sort of advertisement that mentioned his 'advantage-craps' class. Assuming it was just some sort of progressive-betting nonsense similar to those who think you can win at roulette I posted about it on BJ21 because I thought it was a really bad con/joke.

After posting about it I was told that it probably had something to do with throwing the dice a certain way and that Wong was getting into that too and that was the first time I had heard of such a thing.




I do scream when everyone else does.
When I play with a friend I just do what he does.
"25 across!!" (which is a $5 bet on each of the 'odds' or something like that).
I make sure the dealers and everyone else is aware that I have no idea what I'm saying or doing.
That makes it more fun.
I like to do things like scream, "Woo-hoo!! A Seven!!" and then have everyone look at me and then go "Whoops. Sorry. That's bad isn't it?"

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Actually, I don;t think 25 across would play right. Needs to be 26 or 27 depending on the point.

But I digress.

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Kelly:

My impression, though I could be wrong, based on a source I have is that Wong has lost his mind. I also understand that he has done a live demonstration of his methods and it failed miserably.

Perhaps someone can correct me if I have this wrong.

Best wishes,
Mason

[King Yao]

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I also understand that he has done a live demonstration of his methods and it failed miserably.

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What live demonstration are you referring to? There is only one live demonstration that I know of - there was a wager on the number of 7s that would be rolled in a real casino over 500 rolls. There were two shooters - Stanford and a fellow named Li'l Joe. Stanford shot close to the expected number of 7s over his rolls, but Li'l Joe did much better. Stanford won the bet.

If there was another demonstration, I am not aware of it. If there was a different one, please elaborate.

[MicroBob]

Interesting.


I was thinking of posting a question that basically was going to ask, "I wonder what Mason and/or David think about Wong" just because I have a somewhat similar respect for his blackjack work as I do 2+2's poker studies and if either S or M HAD posted an opinion on Wong I never saw it.


I guess this post from Mason pretty much answers my question before I even asked it.

[BruceZ]

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I was thinking of posting a question that basically was going to ask, "I wonder what Mason and/or David think about Wong" just because I have a somewhat similar respect for his blackjack work as I do 2+2's poker studies and if either S or M HAD posted an opinion on Wong I never saw it.


I guess this post from Mason pretty much answers my question before I even asked it.

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I'm sure Mason agrees that Wong has deservedly been one of the most well respected BJ authors and an expert in the mathematical analysis of games. In GTAOT, he gives two of Wong's BJ books his highest rating of 10, and another a 9. He also gives 9s to his books on pai gow poker and video poker, and he states that his books on tournament BJ and craps are excellent. His book on sports betting is also well respected.

[MicroBob]

Oh yeah.

Not sure why I had forgotten this as I had read those reviews myself.

As I recall...Mason also gave Wong's sports-betting book either a 9 or 10 and said something like, "When reviewing a book I ask myself if it gives instructions that will help the reader make a profit...and in the case of Wong's Sports-betting book the answer is a definite yes" (I'm para-phrasing from memory here).



If true that Wong is 'losing it' a little bit (possibly due to old-age) then I might guess that Mason is as disappointed to learn of this as I am.

I'm guessing that Mason has met and interacted with Wong in person before.
if what Mason says is true, I would be somewhat saddened to learn of this even though I've never even met the man,


It could very well be argued that I wouldn't be doing what I am today without Stanford Wong.
Before I ever came over to 2+2 or even found poker at all I dabbled in BJ card-counting and was a regular on BJ21.com.
I learned all about concepts like +EV and 'the long-run' and 'variance' directly or indirectly through him and his web-site.

there is no doubt that it gave me a good head-start when I came over to poker and 2+2.

[2+2 wannabe]

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I also understand that he has done a live demonstration of his methods and it failed miserably.

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What live demonstration are you referring to? There is only one live demonstration that I know of - there was a wager on the number of 7s that would be rolled in a real casino over 500 rolls. There were two shooters - Stanford and a fellow named Li'l Joe. Stanford shot close to the expected number of 7s over his rolls, but Li'l Joe did much better. Stanford won the bet.

If there was another demonstration, I am not aware of it. If there was a different one, please elaborate.

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is this the one that was on wizard of odds website? i can't find it anymore...

[2+2 wannabe]

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My impression, though I could be wrong, based on a source I have is that Wong has lost his mind.

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I can't be the only one who laughed out loud at this