Let's Get Retarded - Commerce 3/5NL

[dtbog]

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lag (~800) opens for 15 from MP, CO the supernit (~380) calls, I (cover) make it 40 with 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], lag calls, CO folds.

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CO folded closing the betting and getting better than 3:1??

Wow, he is a nit -- cool. Does he do this often? If so, this might be the one spot in which I don't like your preflop reraise with the suited connector. Normally I love this play (and here I'm not necessarily saying that I don't), but if you're going to get the nit to fold, that's one person that you can't stack when you both hit your hands and yours is better.

(tangential, but interesting to think about, IMO)
-dB

[dtbog]

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F(100): A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

lag checks, I check

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I actually like this check a lot, because you desparately want to pick up some pot equity with a friendly turn card. If you bet here, he likely just reads it as a continuation bet and then it becomes a battle of "do you have the ace"? That's not what you want here, so I like the check.

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T(100): 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

lag bets 80, i make it 240, lag calls

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Nice card, nice bet.

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R(580): K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

lag checks, I bet $250


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Could he be varying his play with a heads-up check of a made hand on the river? (i don't know, I didn't play with this dude at all.)

You're a LAG, and you've been playing with this other LAG (who knows LAGgy ways) for awhile... what do you think he puts you on? Only this level of thinking IMO holds the key to the action on the river -- I might be tempted to check behind here if he puts your hand range wide enough that he can call with JT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] for a pair of tens or JJ for a pair of jacks.

In summary, I like it up to the river, where I may like it but I feel that it is very player-dependent.

-dB

[fimbulwinter]

PF raise was to get nit to fold everything but QQ or AK, which went nicely, and to get to play a nice, me-controlled pot against the other guy with ~160 BB. as for stealing on the ace board, if he has an ace, he'll call and if he doesn't, he won't on subsequent streets. if the turn blanks and he leads it, i can fold without losing the flop bet and if he checks again i get the pot with very little chance of anything but a fold. also, if he does pick up a crappy draw, i can charge him with my ace by raising and take it from him when he misses on the river.

bad logic?

fim

[taran]

why would you check flop with AK? AK would bet that flop most of the time.You should not allow free card and price any gut straights. What would you like him to catch no turn that he will call your bets with and you will be ahead of?

AK would bet.

[DoomSlice]

Just because you would bet with AK doesn't mean fimbul would...

[xorbie]

[ QUOTE ]
why would you check flop with AK? AK would bet that flop most of the time.You should not allow free card and price any gut straights. What would you like him to catch no turn that he will call your bets with and you will be ahead of?

AK would bet.

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I check flops like that with AK all the time. Especially against LAGs, I like to control the pot size somewhat, give them less information and allow them to bluff at me with lesser hands. I would also check AA on this flop fairly often.

[fimbulwinter]

preflop wanted to bump the nit and play some poker with position. given that he folded like i wanted, this is forgiveable, right?

flop pretty drawless, i'd check here with a lot of hands. giving him a shot at a "3 or 4 outer" is ok in general IMO since im in position etc. I figured if he's got a PP he'll let it go to a turn bet too. my plan was to peel one off and let it go if he led, otherwise take my pot.

turn is golden. I can see him leading with somthing like two clubs, a set, straight draw, etc. I don't know if he leads with a weak ace or med PP here, but i know he doesn't call the raise with one. think about if you held QQ-77 and got that turn action, no way you're calling. i didn't think he'd play a set like that either (i think he'd jut push) since there are so many cards that could help me and/or kill his action. so i guess i had him on a pretty solid draw or something like twopair with AT which is really remote that he wouldn't just get it in there.

river JQ got there, but nothing else. i don't think he checks the nuts there, but maybe if he puts me on AA or AK. Really i was worried about all the possible pair-and-draw combinatons he could hold. i said to myself when he called the turn that i was maybe in danger if a third club hit. you guys feel that way too?

fim

[taran]

I can see AA check that flop, no problem.
I would like to be a little transparent against the LAG who limped, then called a raise with 1 nit and onother LAG behind him, OOP. We have nothing, why would we obscure our 'AK'? Let him see that he is behind by betting flop with "AK" or checking with the "set".

[Rockatansky]

Villain's play is consistent with K-Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q-J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and J-10[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. If you assume that he'd throw out a blocking bet with K-Q and a value bet with Q-J, then your river bet makes sense as he's going to fold J-10 just about every time here.

And if you went through this thought process while the hand was in progress then I am jealous.

[edge]

I bet this flop every time, no matter what I reraised with preflop, but I guess I have a different playing style. You made your semi-bluff move on the turn and the river isn't a great card to bluff. I check it through and give up.