Set under set under set. And i runner runner the flush.

[ChuckyB]

[ QUOTE ]
BUT you have an advantage over him as soon as the flop comes out!

Why? Because if you hold 55, and the flop is QJ6, you are folding instantly.

[/ QUOTE ]

However, you've already peed away $10 pre-flop knowing/believing you're dominated. Multiply that by the 6.5 times out of 7.5 that you won't hit a set...the implied odds say and you have to take $65 off your opponent when you make a set to break even. That doesn't even account for the 1 in 8 times your opponent hits a set too. In this situation, with wired 6s and a player yet to act...I'm gone.

In a cash game, there are more pairs coming.

[xorbie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
BUT you have an advantage over him as soon as the flop comes out!

Why? Because if you hold 55, and the flop is QJ6, you are folding instantly.

[/ QUOTE ]

However, you've already peed away $10 pre-flop knowing/believing you're dominated. Multiply that by the 6.5 times out of 7.5 that you won't hit a set...the implied odds say and you have to take $65 off your opponent when you make a set to break even. That doesn't even account for the 1 in 8 times your opponent hits a set too. In this situation, with wired 6s and a player yet to act...I'm gone.

In a cash game, there are more pairs coming.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sorry man, but you are leaving serious money on the table. This isn't about being dominated. It's about implied odds. Making $65 is absurdly easy if you have $100 behind and the pot on the flop is already going to be $30. If you flop a set, you are easily going to get a 2/3 bet on the flop and turn, or a bet and raise on the flop.

It's not a great call, only because Hero is calling off fully 10% of his stack, but it's not a bad call either, and worrying about pot odds preflop with a hand like 66 is idiotic.

[ChuckyB]

I will concede the point to you...as these are bigger stakes than I play for. It's not taking a $65 pot though. It's making a $65 profit (above the money HERO put in) to make the implied odds work

[ChuckyB]

What if there wasn't a pre-flop re-raise to $10, three people were in for $3. Now he hits his 6 on the flop. Where's $65 profit going to come from? Pretend they call a 2/3-pot bet on the flop. The pot is now $27-rake...9 of it is yours.

[dtbog]

[ QUOTE ]
What if there wasn't a pre-flop re-raise to $10, three people were in for $3. Now he hits his 6 on the flop. Where's $65 profit going to come from? Pretend they call a 2/3-pot bet on the flop. The pot is now $27-rake...9 of it is yours.

[/ QUOTE ]

If Hero calls $3 preflop, then you don't need $65 profit to justify playing the hand....

... surely you're not advocating folding all low pocket pairs regardless of position, are you??

-dB

[dtbog]

[ QUOTE ]
What if there wasn't a pre-flop re-raise to $10, three people were in for $3. Now he hits his 6 on the flop. Where's $65 profit going to come from?

[/ QUOTE ]

EXACTLY! The big preflop raise usually indicates a strong hand!

$65 profit is going to come when you flop a set and someone else has a strong hand -- and they pay you off.

Overpairs are strong hands that often pay off sets, especially at lower levels.

Look, I'm not advocating playing every low pp regardless of position or the size of the raise -- it depends largely on the opponent, the size of the raise, position, his stack size, and everything else.

You have to admit, though, that your logic is flawed if you refuse to play a low pocket pair if you think someone might have a higher one. What has better implied odds than a low set? It's completely disguised from the board, unlike a straight or a flush.

-dB

[ChuckyB]

By the way...I love this forum for debate. The people I normally play with aren't well read as you and the others here seem.

I've been thinking of the implied odds associated with a low pocket pair as being up against overcards...something where it's 5:4 preflop.

I don't know if I've run into the situation we're debating...if I have, I don't remember. I like low pocket pairs for cheap...not against a big raise with another player to act. The situation of the original poster gives me the willies.

[xorbie]

[ QUOTE ]
I will concede the point to you...as these are bigger stakes than I play for. It's not taking a $65 pot though. It's making a $65 profit (above the money HERO put in) to make the implied odds work

[/ QUOTE ]

Pot is $30 on flop. Let's say he is weak or whatever and only bets $20. Only you call. Turn pot is $70. He either bets $50 or check calls $50. And even if for some reason he folds the turn 1/3 of the time, you can probably get his stack the other 2/3 anyway.

[drexah]

Just checked up on this thread now, but im pleased with the discussion it is getting. Yes, it is an insanely absurd hand, but it also raises the question of how much to put in PF with low pairs against X number of opponents, given the implied odds etc. IMO, raising before the flop with low PP (the same as i would with TT-AA or AKs for instance) pays me off much better than just limping or min-raising. You can be much more aggressive postflop, and if you hit a set, you are more likely to get paid off (from what ive seen at least)

[drexah]

***** Hand History for Game 2162644120 *****
$100 NL Hold'em - Monday, June 06, 00:42:16 EDT 2005
Table Table 36958 (6 max) (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 1: TwoWolves ( $146.26 )
Seat 2: dexah ( $114.35 )
Seat 3: BFK_4_LIFE ( $183.17 )
Seat 5: sgboston23 ( $49 )
Seat 6: BigLongStick ( $35.8 )
BigLongStick posts small blind [$0.5].
dexah posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to dexah [ Tc Td ]
BFK_4_LIFE calls [$1].
sgboston23 folds.
BigLongStick calls [$0.5].
dexah raises [$3].
BFK_4_LIFE raises [$9].
BigLongStick folds.
dexah calls [$6].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Jc, 4d, Th ]
dexah checks.
BFK_4_LIFE bets [$20].
dexah raises [$50].
BFK_4_LIFE is all-In [$153.17]
dexah is all-In [$54.35]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 9d ]
** Dealing River ** [ 6c ]
dexah shows [ Tc, Td ] three of a kind, tens.
BFK_4_LIFE shows [ Ah, Ac ] a pair of aces.
BFK_4_LIFE wins $68.82 from side pot #1 with a pair of aces.
dexah wins $227.7 from the main pot with three of a kind, tens.


thoughts?