How do you maximize profits playing with fish?

[bernie]

depending on the betting postflop, postflop he may have had the odds to chase it down. and accidentally played his hand right after the flop by calling...

not mentioning his preflop play...

b

[Bob T.]

In loose games you need to make sets, straights and flushes to win big pots. Your preflop strategy should include suited connectors, and small pairs.

Good Luck,
Play Well,

Bob T.

[KaiserD2]

I think the key in this situation, with which I'm very familiar, is to pick out the people who aren't going to fold if they have hit a small pair. You can raise preflop with A K, the flop can be Q J 7, and if they had 8 7, they are going to call to the river. It really isn't too hard to identify these guys--most of them, I think, are in their twenties, although some older women play like that, too--and I'm trying to develop the discipline to forget everything I've learned about winning through aggression against them. The other night I raised on the button (no bets until then) with A 10 unsuited and the blinds called. The flop didn't help--I think it included a Q--and I bet the flop and the turn. The small blind folded on the turn. I checked the river--which was smart--I still hadn't improved. The small blind beat me with a pair of sevens (one on the board). The big blind had folded 10 10 !

The awful nights are the ones when these guys catch trips on the river. You can't do anything about that, but there's no point giving them money when they don't have anything.

[bob2007]

I can't remember what the odds were, but i believe it was something like pairs only hit a set 1/9 hands. Therefore if I call preflop and get that 1 in 9 hands i'd hit my set, winning nothing off the call preflop. On the postflop, my set might not hold up every time anyways, then i have to call another 10 times just to win 1 pot.

[ResidentParanoid]

I agree across the board.

And of course, when you play Kxs, get your King on the flop with no flush possibilities, you throw it away to most bets. Read loose play section of HEFAP and then read it again.

These are the games I play in most often, and am disappointed when the guys calling with 83o leave. Played well, I think these are 2BB/hr or better tables with all of that pre-flop money out there.

Running a few bluffs/semibluffs with overcards or nut draw is usually enough to squash my "nut only" image when everyone tightens up. And you may start taking down a hand or two with your semi-bluff if everyone starts to respect you too much.

And when you raise on the turn or river with your nut or second nut flush, you'll have so many callers that your eyes will bug out.

[ResidentParanoid]

With something like 4 callers or more with very little raising, calling with all pocket pairs is easy (I don't recall the odds of flopping a set). If you miss your set, the situation is bad and you have no other good draws, muck it on the flop since you rarely have odds for your two outs. When you hit your set, your implied odds at these tables are enormous, since you have 3 rounds of betting to punish them with, and you will get callers.

You also have to know when to let a hand go when you hit, and then you get drawn out against. Against obvious playing players, this is easy much of the time.

[bernie]

youre thinking is off here

the 8-1 youre referring to is about implied odds, # of bets...not # of pots won.

folding pairs in a loose passive game, youre leaving alot of chips on the table...

b

[Louie Landale]

"How do you maximize profits playing with [loose-passive] fish?" Play selectively and when you make anything reasonable flail away and don't waste much time trying to figure out what they have.

Now onto your post... Let me see: you are playing selectively and when you make something reasonable like top pair or an over-pair, you are flailing away againt 4 of them and only losing 2/3rds of the time. So two times in 3 you lose about 3bb and one time in 3 you win about 8bb. Sounds like you are grinding out 2bb overall with your big pairs; to that you add your profitable small-pair sets and flushes you make.

What's the problem? Sounds like you just cannot STAND not knowing when that last random card is going to help their random hands. NEWS FLASH!!! nobody can realiably.

- Louie

WARNING: only the most brain dead are NOT going to notice that you often fold to one more river bet. You can expect them to take shots at YOU when they otherwise would not. If you DO make an obvious lay down a couple times on the river, you just HAVE to figure to pay off the rest of the night.

[bob2007]

Yes I realize that, but they are brain dead, they don't realize that I play once every round. They call my open raise in first position (big pairs). I also know to read them by the times they raise and when they call. Obviously i'm not gonna fold something decent to 1 river bet in a big pot when I know that guy occasionally bluffs.

I think right now the best strategy would be to check raise the turn instead of start out betting in early position, since most of those guys bet the flop with any pair.

[rockoon]

This is why I recommend mixing it up. Try to isolate on a speeder with total trash... or just play your draws extremely agressively.. just once a session is enough.. if everybody is looking at each other with a blank stare in awe of what you just did, you've done it right and can tighten up considerably now.