65s wins a big pot

[creedofhubris]

Preflop and turn are marginal calls.


It's not much of a raise preflop, stacks are fairly deep, so the preflop call's marginal but OK. Drawing hand out of position, bad idea in general, but if the player is lousy like this raiser seems to be, then it's OK.

It's a pathetic continuation bet on the flop, you are probably ahead of UTG, so the call is routine there. (A raise is also to be considered, and would probably be best if it were headsup.)

On the turn, you've got a good read of villain (set, 2 pair at a minimum.) He's certainly got a hand good enough to pay you off. Just counting your clean outs, you will beat him with any of 6 straightening cards + 7 (running!) spades that don't pair the board. So you have 13 outs with one card to come. You need 33:13 = 2.5:1 to make the call.

You've got 2:1 right here, villain needs to call more than $50 on the river if you hit to make your call +EV. Your spade outs and your four are well-disguised, so you're likely to get paid big if they come in. So the call is all right.

It would be a very easy call if villain had more behind.

Also, if you were on the clubs instead of the spades, you would have to consider the chance that he would not pay you off if those outs came.

[gomberg]

Flop play sucks. Everything else looks fine. The problem with the flop call is that you may have some pretty large reverse implied odds vs. something like 7s9s, 79o, sets, etc. If you do hit another 5 or a 6, it could cost you big-time, a spade gives you more non-nut draws, and the card you got gave you an idiot straight draw where you also could lose some money and not extract a lot when you do hit. For those reasons, this is a clear fold on the flop unless you feel you have some steal equity (against 2 people, probably not).

EDIT: The continuation bet is pretty small, you may want to make a move at the pot if SB didn't call, even with him calling, maybe try it. The call isn't quite as bad as I thought as long as you're usually not going to double up anyone else . Also, I would NEVER fold in the BB there w/ 56s as AZK alluded to.

[CamelZoo]

probably simplistic, but AZK, what do you mean by "he's asking to go broke" with his 3xBB pf raise? w/ what range of hands, why? etc...

[captZEEbo1]

[ QUOTE ]
probably simplistic, but AZK, what do you mean by "he's asking to go broke" with his 3xBB pf raise? w/ what range of hands, why? etc...

[/ QUOTE ]

Since he's utg, he probably has a good hand, but didn't raise enough with it. UTG raises are often include AK or QQ+, depending on the raiser of coruse. I'm assuming he meant that UTG should be raising more than 3xBB. suited connectors and pocket pairs are the best hands for busting AK or overpairs.

[psuasskicker]

im posting basically because villian spent the next 10 minutes berating me for the hand and telling me how terribly i played it. i think he's wrong, do you agree?

PF: Easy call.
Flop: You had to call $25 for a $95 pot. That's a call I'll frequently make, but I don't like how coordinated the board is against you. I usually like the bd-flush draw when there's no other flush draw on the board. Plus a 7 is only sort-of an out since T9 might be out there as well. QT is a viable threat as well if a 7 comes off, and like you said, runner runner 79 isn't all that great. I don't hate the call, but I think a better board for that call would be something like: Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Turn: Easy call.
River: Okay value bet, but I'd bet higher to justify your odds on the turn call.

All in all your call on the flop was questionable. Here's an example from a hand that's about a year and a half old (I'm HERO) that illustrates the difference between calling the flop bet on a dangerous flop vs. calling one on a non-threatening flop.

NL $1/$2 at Borgata, HERO is BB with 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], has close to $300 and no real strong read on anyone as it's early on the table. None at the table appear to be tough or tricky.
EP calls, villain ($300ish stack) calls, LP calls, button ($200ish stack) calls, SB folds, HERO checks.
Flop: A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
HERO checks, EP checks, villain bets $10, LP folds, button (dumb player) calls, HERO calls, EP folds.

I'm investing $10 with a non-dangerous hand if I pick something up. Villain most likely has some sort of Ace, unlikely two pair though that's possible. The pot is relatively small, but I need $84 if all five of my outs are live in that situation. They might not be, so I rounded it off to about $100. That meant that if I spiked one of my cards on the turn, I would need to get another $70 from the two players.

That theoretically shouldn't be tough, cause neither card that comes off should be threatening, and the pot will have $40 in it. I should be ashamed of myself if I can't milk another $70 out of those two combined if I catch on the turn. In fact, if I catch, I should be able to get about another $100 or so which makes the odds attractive enough to continue with the hand.

Key to this is being able to get off your hand if you catch on the turn. Let's say a 2 comes off on the turn. I'd bet out, cause that should scare a simple Ace into passivity. But if he's got true power in his hand - i.e. has me beat - he should come back firing. So if he raises my bet big, that should tell me to get off my hand.

The less coordinated and threatening the board (and lower pot size...I don't want to play a huge pot for a ton of money with hands like that), the more inclined I am to call with a trashy-type hand. It's excellent image play with very little risk.

- C -