AQo - Button, Why raise?

[tylerdurden]

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Unless you're the one opening the pot with AQ, perhaps raise only if you have a read on the table and know your raise would push out most of the field.

There are a lot of flops that can hurt you.

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This is weak-tight thinking, not a winning strategy.

[tylerdurden]

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The raise is not so much designed to drive out opponents, but rather to push your preflop equity edge.

[...]

I hope I explained this somewhat coherently [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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Yep.

[SheridanCat]

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Ebidy ebidy ebdiy wha?!?!?!

You will in fact be making a large mistake if you fold AQo pf on the button after many limpers. You will also be making a large mistake if you fail to raise. This is straight out of SSHE, remember the ATs in a multiway pot example?

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I knew I'd raise a little stink. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Glad someone was paying attention.

First, you have to ask, how many times do I get AQo on the button. Rarely. Overall, you won't be in this position very often so if you are unsure about what to do with it, there's no problem folding in the long run.

Once you're comfortable with what to do with this hand in this position, you won't be folding and you'll be pressing that edge with confidence.

As for ATs, that is much clearer in a multiway pot, in my opinion.

Regards,

T

[cocked&locked]

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First, you have to ask, how many times do I get AQo on the button. Rarely. Overall, you won't be in this position very often so if you are unsure about what to do with it, there's no problem folding in the long run.


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I think this is terrible advice. The game in general is about learning to push edges, not avoiding them. While I agree that some marginal hands / situations are better avoided when learning, clearly raising AQo in position in a low limit game where you likely have a big equity edge is not one of them.

[Twitch1977]

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[ QUOTE ]
Ebidy ebidy ebdiy wha?!?!?!

You will in fact be making a large mistake if you fold AQo pf on the button after many limpers. You will also be making a large mistake if you fail to raise. This is straight out of SSHE, remember the ATs in a multiway pot example?

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I knew I'd raise a little stink. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Glad someone was paying attention.

First, you have to ask, how many times do I get AQo on the button. Rarely. Overall, you won't be in this position very often so if you are unsure about what to do with it, there's no problem folding in the long run.

Once you're comfortable with what to do with this hand in this position, you won't be folding and you'll be pressing that edge with confidence.

As for ATs, that is much clearer in a multiway pot, in my opinion.

Regards,

T

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AQo on the button in the grand scheme of things is a rare and fairly insignificant occurence, but if you treat all your little mistakes like this, 'well I don't know what to do, I guess I'll just fold,' all those 'small mistakes' are going to start adding up and costing you a lot of money.

AQo, as you said, plays better in a shorthanded pot, but I don't think it's as bad as you're making it out to be, you're really only in trouble preflop to AA, AK, KK, QQ. Just take your time evaluating the flop and how your AQo fits into it and you'll be fine.

Folding AQo on the button with several limpers is a clear mistake imo. AQo might not be the best multiway hand in the world but it can sure beat a lot of the junk other people will play. I see no reason to even think about folding this. I would certainly take AQo over hands like 98s, in fact if I could get dealt AQo every time I was on the button, I'd be a very happy camper [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

T

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Say im on the button, 5limpers and i raise? They all call..

because if the blinds both call you're against 7 opponents with a hand that wins a good deal more than 1/8 of the time.

[cocked&locked]

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AQo, as you said, plays better in a shorthanded pot

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I don't think this is true. As I've learned it, these bigger hands (such as AQo) generally have an equity advantage that exceeds the detriment that comes from having several random hands (such as seen in low limit) drawing against it (not all off suit brodways, just the bigger ones). While I haven't done the sims myself to collaborate this, some authors that I respect have asserted this.

If I've misread, I'd like to be corrected. If I've been misinformed, I'd certainly like to see some conflicting data.

I do agree that you will win more pots when it is shorthanded, but we want the money, not the pots.

Edited to say that I'm not directing this comment directly at you Twitch, but the others in the thread that have stated this as well. I pretty much agree with the other things you've said, and might have taken this comment a bit out of context in your post, however, the sentiment was passed around enough in the thread that I figured I would reply here.

[iNsChris]

(replyed to my post as its to no one specific).

Ok, Well i'll keep raising preflop but it just seems when i do raise... Flops Rag Rag K and i have 3outs to TopPair.

Guess pokertracker will tell me how good it is when i eventually purchase this software/Can use it on my site.

Continue discussion, I'm learning.

I thought equality/Edge would come into it, It just feels like such a weak hand.

Thanks.

[Twitch1977]

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AQo, as you said, plays better in a shorthanded pot

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I don't think this is true. As I've learned it, these bigger hands (such as AQo) generally have an equity advantage that exceeds the detriment that comes from having several random hands (such as seen in low limit) drawing against it (not all off suit brodways, just the bigger ones). While I haven't done the sims myself to collaborate this, some authors that I respect have asserted this.

If I've misread, or been misinformed, I'd certainly like to see some conflicting data.

I do agree that you will win more pots when it is shorthanded, but we want the money, not the pots.

Edited to say that I'm not directing this comment directly at you Twitch, but the others in the thread that have stated this as well. I pretty much agree with the other things you've said, and might have taken this comment a bit out of context in your post, however, the sentiment was passed around enough in the thread that I figured I would reply here.

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I have re-wrote this reply about 7 times trying to properly express what I was intending and I can't seem to do it without sounding like I'm contradicting myself. In retrospect if I were to do it again I would leave the 'plays better in a shorthanded pot' comment out simply because it seems to add contradiction.

I only meant to indicate that a hand with a lot of 'Top Pair - Good Kicker' strength such as AQo plays very well shorthanded and will win a lot of pots based on flopping top pair and having it hold up at the showdown. But this in no way means that it does not play very well multi-way because it does maintain a healthy equity advantage.

Appologies.

T

[Twitch1977]

I would recommend going to http://www.pokerstove.com/ and downloading the poker stove app and play around and see just how well AQo plays against varying numbers of opponents.

This is an excellent app. I use all the time for playing around to evaluate the strength of varying hands vs different numbers of opponents.

T