Keep the short stack alive?

[jgunnip]

Ok, so you in these situations you have to push any two when the middle stacks are in the blinds?

[poboys]

The SS is on your left, which clearly is less attractive. You are right in that he will have to call pretty much any-two. This strategy works great when there are TWO short-stacks and one moderate stack and you have a huge stack.

Personally, I would push here. Taking the blinds gives you more chips, and now you can attack the medium stack (not with any two, but just more than you normally would), since he's more likely to wait for the new SS to get aggressive.

[jcm4ccc]

100% fold. Not even close.

It's great when the short stack is on your left. You can fold the small blinds. Then, when you push the next hand, the short stack is going to fold (unless he gets a hand) because he is hoping that the BB will call your bet and go out in 4th place. Same thing on the next hand. The short stack will fold, hoping that the SB or the BB will call your bet. The SB or BB won't call your bet, because they know that the short stack is not long for this world. Then, when the short stack is on the BB, you can fold your small blind again and keep him on life support for another round.

It doesn't get much better than this.

[gasgod]

I don't think it's worth 568 chips just to keep shorty alive. I think it's time to take his money and run for the goal line, if you can. Just complete, as you are a slight favorite.

If the blinds were lower, and shorty had fewer chips, it would be more attractive to fold.

GG

[curtains]

I would not fold.

[DaveKForty7]

[ QUOTE ]
My main concern is the desperate short stack once I fold. I'm assuming that if I fold this then I have to push any two for the next 2 hands correct? I'm worried that the BB will still be desperate and call with trash that is better than my trash, thereby cutting into my FE a lot.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's going to be more desperate this hand than he will be next hand. Plus, he'll be able to see two more hands for free, and he can fold can hope that one of the mid stacks busts in the next few hands.

[Newt_Buggs]

hmmmm, we seem to be getting some dissention amongst even the very experienced players. Let me quantify out the possibilities to see if that helps.
blinds are 200/400
calling:
55% of the time hero will win producing:
UTG (t2526)
Hero (t6264)
BB(t1210)

45% hero will lose:
UTG (t2526)
Hero (t5528)
SB (t736)
BB (t1210)




folding:
UTG (t2526)
Hero (t5696)
SB (t568)
BB (t1210)

[curtains]

btw if you lose the allin, you will now push any 2 on button+ probably cutoff too. It's also less likely SB calls in that scenario.

[jcm4ccc]

Here's a similar history where I kept the short stack alive for 19 hands. Notice that:

<ul type="square">[*]I lost 2 all-ins[*]I always folded to the small stack[*]I ended up with a much greater proportion of chips than what I started with[*]They almost always folded to me when I was in the BB[*]Fish can learn[/list]

***** Game 2092605383 *****
Seat 4: jcm4ccc (3350)
Seat 5: venezia930 (330)
Seat 7: camperwolf (3195)
Seat 9: burgipoker (1125)
venezia930 posts small blind (200)
camperwolf posts big blind (400)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to jcm4ccc 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
burgipoker folds.
jcm4ccc raises (3350) to 3350
venezia930 folds.
camperwolf: 72o, shall i call? [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
camperwolf folds.


***** Game 2092605908 *****
Seat 4: jcm4ccc (3950)
Seat 5: venezia930 (130)
Seat 7: camperwolf (2795)
Seat 9: burgipoker (1125)
camperwolf posts small blind (200)
burgipoker posts big blind (400)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to jcm4ccc J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
jcm4ccc raises (3950) to 3950
venezia930 folds.
camperwolf folds.
burgipoker folds.

***** Game 2092606163 *****
Seat 4: jcm4ccc (4550)
Seat 5: venezia930 (130)
Seat 7: camperwolf (2595)
Seat 9: burgipoker (725)
burgipoker posts small blind (200)
jcm4ccc posts big blind (400)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to jcm4ccc J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
venezia930 folds.
camperwolf folds.
burgipoker folds.

***** Game 2092606495 *****
Seat 4: jcm4ccc (4750)
Seat 5: venezia930 (130)
Seat 7: camperwolf (2595)
Seat 9: burgipoker (525)
jcm4ccc posts small blind (200)
venezia930 posts big blind (130)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to jcm4ccc 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
camperwolf calls (400)
burgipoker folds.
jcm4ccc folds.
Creating Main Pot with $390 with venezia930
** Dealing Flop ** : 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
** Dealing Turn ** : J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
** Dealing River ** : 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
venezia930 net +260 J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
camperwolf lost -60 A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

***** Game 2092606836 *****
Seat 4: jcm4ccc (4550)
Seat 5: venezia930 (390)
Seat 7: camperwolf (2535)
Seat 9: burgipoker (525)
venezia930 posts small blind (200)
camperwolf posts big blind (400)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to jcm4ccc Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
burgipoker folds.
jcm4ccc raises (4550) to 4550
jcm4ccc is all-In.
venezia930 folds.
camperwolf folds.

***** Game 2092607088 *****
Seat 4: jcm4ccc (5150)
Seat 5: venezia930 (190)
Seat 7: camperwolf (2135)
Seat 9: burgipoker (525)
camperwolf posts small blind (200)
burgipoker posts big blind (400)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to jcm4ccc 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
jcm4ccc folds.
venezia930 folds.
camperwolf raises (600) to 800
burgipoker calls (125)
** Dealing Flop ** : 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
** Dealing Turn ** : 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
** Dealing River ** : 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
** Summary **
camperwolf lost -525 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
burgipoker net +525 K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

***** Game 2092607458 *****
Seat 4: jcm4ccc (5150)
Seat 5: venezia930 (190)
Seat 7: camperwolf (1610)
Seat 9: burgipoker (1050)
burgipoker posts small blind (200)
jcm4ccc posts big blind (400)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to jcm4ccc T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
venezia930 folds.
camperwolf folds.
burgipoker raises (850) to 1050
burgipoker is all-In.
jcm4ccc folds.

***** Game 2092607800 *****
Seat 4: jcm4ccc (4750)
Seat 5: venezia930 (190)
Seat 7: camperwolf (1610)
Seat 9: burgipoker (1450)
jcm4ccc posts small blind (200)
venezia930 posts big blind (190)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to jcm4ccc 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
camperwolf folds.
burgipoker raises (1450) to 1450
burgipoker is all-In.
jcm4ccc folds.

***** Game 2092608149 *****
Seat 4: jcm4ccc (4550)
Seat 5: venezia930 (570)
Seat 7: camperwolf (1610)
Seat 9: burgipoker (1270)
venezia930 posts small blind (200)
camperwolf posts big blind (400)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to jcm4ccc 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
burgipoker folds.
jcm4ccc raises (4550) to 4550
venezia930 folds.
camperwolf folds.

***** Game 2092608428 *****
Seat 4: jcm4ccc (5150)
Seat 5: venezia930 (370)
Seat 7: camperwolf (1210)
Seat 9: burgipoker (1270)
camperwolf posts small blind (200)
burgipoker posts big blind (400)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to jcm4ccc 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
jcm4ccc raises (5150) to 5150
venezia930 folds.
camperwolf folds.
burgipoker calls (870)
burgipoker is all-In.
** Dealing Flop ** : 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
** Dealing Turn ** : 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
** Dealing River ** : 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
jcm4ccc lost -1270
burgipoker net +1470 A[club, 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

***** Game 2092608817 *****
Seat 4: jcm4ccc (3880)
Seat 5: venezia930 (370)
Seat 7: camperwolf (1010)
Seat 9: burgipoker (2740)
burgipoker posts small blind (250)
jcm4ccc posts big blind (500)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to jcm4ccc J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
venezia930 folds.
camperwolf folds.
burgipoker folds.

***** Game 2092609054 *****
Seat 4: jcm4ccc (4130)
Seat 5: venezia930 (370)
Seat 7: camperwolf (1010)
Seat 9: burgipoker (2490)
jcm4ccc posts small blind (250)
venezia930 posts big blind (370)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to jcm4ccc A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
camperwolf folds.
burgipoker folds.
jcm4ccc folds.

***** Game 2092609298 *****
Seat 4: jcm4ccc (3880)
Seat 5: venezia930 (620)
Seat 7: camperwolf (1010)
Seat 9: burgipoker (2490)
venezia930 posts small blind (250)
camperwolf posts big blind (500)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to jcm4ccc 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
burgipoker folds.
jcm4ccc raises (3880) to 3880
jcm4ccc is all-In.
venezia930 folds.
camperwolf calls (510)
camperwolf is all-In.
** Dealing Flop ** : 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
** Dealing Turn ** : Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
** Dealing River ** : T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
** Summary **
jcm4ccc lost -1010
camperwolf net +1260 J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
camperwolf: phew

***** Game 2092609721 *****
Seat 4: jcm4ccc (2870)
Seat 5: venezia930 (370)
Seat 7: camperwolf (2270)
Seat 9: burgipoker (2490)
camperwolf posts small blind (250)
burgipoker posts big blind (500)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to jcm4ccc K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
jcm4ccc raises (2870) to 2870
jcm4ccc is all-In.
camperwolf folds.
burgipoker folds.

***** Game 2092610044 *****
Seat 4: jcm4ccc (3620)
Seat 5: venezia930 (370)
Seat 7: camperwolf (2020)
Seat 9: burgipoker (1990)
burgipoker posts small blind (250)
jcm4ccc posts big blind (500)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to jcm4ccc 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
venezia930 folds.
camperwolf folds.
burgipoker folds.

***** Game 2092610277 *****
Seat 4: jcm4ccc (3870)
Seat 5: venezia930 (370)
Seat 7: camperwolf (2020)
Seat 9: burgipoker (1740)
jcm4ccc posts small blind (250)
venezia930 posts big blind (370)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to jcm4ccc 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
camperwolf folds.
burgipoker folds.
jcm4ccc folds.

***** Game 2092610494 *****
Seat 4: jcm4ccc (3620)
Seat 5: venezia930 (620)
Seat 7: camperwolf (2020)
Seat 9: burgipoker (1740)
venezia930 posts small blind (250)
camperwolf posts big blind (500)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to jcm4ccc T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
burgipoker folds.
jcm4ccc raises (3620) to 3620
venezia930 folds.
camperwolf folds.
camperwolf: why doesn’t he call when the small stack is all in?

***** Game 2092610758 *****
Seat 4: jcm4ccc (4370)
Seat 5: venezia930 (370)
Seat 7: camperwolf (1520)
Seat 9: burgipoker (1740)
camperwolf posts small blind (250)
burgipoker posts big blind (500)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to jcm4ccc 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
jcm4ccc raises (4370) to 4370
jcm4ccc is all-In.
venezia930 folds.
camperwolf folds.
burgipoker folds.
burgipoker: i don't understand that either

***** Game 2092611053 *****
Seat 4: jcm4ccc (5120)
Seat 5: venezia930 (370)
Seat 7: camperwolf (1270)
Seat 9: burgipoker (1240)
burgipoker posts small blind (250)
jcm4ccc posts big blind (500)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to jcm4ccc 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
venezia930 folds.
camperwolf folds.
burgipoker folds.

***** Game 2092611314 *****
Seat 4: jcm4ccc (5370)
Seat 5: venezia930 (370)
Seat 7: camperwolf (1270)
Seat 9: burgipoker (990)
jcm4ccc posts small blind (250)
venezia930 posts big blind (370)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to jcm4ccc 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
camperwolf calls (500)
burgipoker folds.
jcm4ccc folds.
** Dealing Flop ** : Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
** Dealing Turn ** : A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
** Dealing River ** : 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
** Summary **
venezia930 lost 370 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
camperwolf net +620 K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
camperwolf: i think he is smart.. wanted him in the game so he could push us

[jgunnip]

[ QUOTE ]
camperwolf: i think he is smart.. wanted him in the game so he could push us

[/ QUOTE ]

WE'VE GOT A THINKER!!