So my mid-end game sucks - Page 2

Newt_Buggs · #11 05-24-2005, 05:53 AM

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3)
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (5 handed) converter

UTG (t1305)
Hero (t2960)
Button (t1080)
SB (t1460)
BB (t1195)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 5, 5.
1 fold, Hero raises to t275, Button raises to t800
I fold. Looking for comments on first action mostly

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Seems totally fine. If I was in your spot, the action would have likely went the same. I would usually open raise from 250-350, with the lower range being more common.

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if I did the math right then you have odds to call this push if villain is on TT+,AQ+

Newt_Buggs · #12 05-24-2005, 05:57 AM

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Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (5 handed) converter

UTG (t1640)
Hero (t1525)
Button (t2210)
SB (t1635)
BB (t990)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 3, K.
1 fold
Can I go yet? I folded.

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this is very marginal and highly dependent on your read on the BB. In general I am folding this though unless the BB is really tight.

EverettKings · #13 05-24-2005, 06:13 AM

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3)
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (5 handed) converter

UTG (t1305)
Hero (t2960)
Button (t1080)
SB (t1460)
BB (t1195)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 5, 5.
1 fold, Hero raises to t275, Button raises to t800
I fold. Looking for comments on first action mostly

Seems totally fine. If I was in your spot, the action would have likely went the same. I would usually open raise from 250-350, with the lower range being more common.

if I did the math right then you have odds to call this push if villain is on TT+,AQ+

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Note that he wasnt exactly all in, as he has like 150 more chips. So its really a 1050 raise, not 800. I think that makes it a clear fold to the reraise. The first-to-act decisions are the ones that most interest me though, like how should I have raised, if at all, in the first place?

-Kings

Mammux · #14 05-24-2005, 08:27 AM

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I think what you will discover is that in late position, when it's folded to you, you need to lower your hand requirements a lot.

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Really? That sounds made up.

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It's not. I think you are underestimating the importance of position with high blinds near the bubble. Some of your early position hands are very easy folds and some of your late position hands are easy pushes. Curtain's comments are spot on regarding the hands you've posted, but for a more general understanding of these situations, go buy eastbay's tool.

By the way I might push 55 some of the time. By pushing, you often represent a medium pocket pair like 99 or TT, so most of the time you will be slightly ahead when you're called, because 66-99 is likely to fold, while at least 88 or 99 might go all-in if you go for a normal raise. Depends on reads and image, of course.

-Magnus

hummusx · #15 05-24-2005, 08:54 AM

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Reflecting on this, I think I would benefit from trying to play push/fold poker in those spots. I'm worrying too much about "getting away" and should just shove it or shut up. Some suck out training couldn't hurt: know any good books?

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Looking over the hands you posted, I think this is a big key. People are stupid and will make stupid calls for big chunks of their chips. They are less likely to make stupid calls for ALL of their chips. I think that when the blinds get high and there are still a lot of people left, you need to think about pushing instead of 3x raises, even if you have 12BB or 13BB. People are just too likely to call in the 33s, and you really, really don't want that.

EverettKings · #16 05-24-2005, 01:46 PM

I was joking. I understand the importance of pushing more hands in position. I also am familiar with eastbay's program but I can do those calculations myself. The trick is putting them on the correct range of calling hands, which is hard.

It's great if I pick up ATs on the button or 88 or some "nice" steal hand, but when my cards are running terrible and K5o comes and goes, I often am not sure when I'm "desperate" enough to just start shoving the little crap that I get. Like the QTo hand (#7). The blinds were about to eat me alive, so even if pushing is marginal or slightly -EV, folding could be even more harmful. Understand my dilemma?

I do agree that I should outright push more, as people's ranges, especially 5-6 way, will be suprisingly tight when all their chips are at risk. But how tight do you think they will be? That's a crucial question to answer before I can figure out what hands I can reasonably push with for 10-15 BBs on the button/CO.

-Kings

Newt_Buggs · #17 05-24-2005, 01:46 PM

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Quote:

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3)
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (5 handed) converter

UTG (t1305)
Hero (t2960)
Button (t1080)
SB (t1460)
BB (t1195)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 5, 5.
1 fold, Hero raises to t275, Button raises to t800
I fold. Looking for comments on first action mostly

Seems totally fine. If I was in your spot, the action would have likely went the same. I would usually open raise from 250-350, with the lower range being more common.

if I did the math right then you have odds to call this push if villain is on TT+,AQ+

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Note that he wasnt exactly all in, as he has like 150 more chips. So its really a 1050 raise, not 800. I think that makes it a clear fold to the reraise. The first-to-act decisions are the ones that most interest me though, like how should I have raised, if at all, in the first place?

-Kings

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hero must put in 805 chips to win 2,310
805/2310=.348
if villain is holding 1010+,AQ+ hero will have a .371 win rate

this is marginal, but if the villain is looser the gap widens.

EverettKings · #18 05-24-2005, 02:20 PM

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3)
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (5 handed) converter

UTG (t1305)
Hero (t2960)
Button (t1080)
SB (t1460)
BB (t1195)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 5, 5.
1 fold, Hero raises to t275, Button raises to t800
I fold. Looking for comments on first action mostly

[/ QUOTE ]

Seems totally fine. If I was in your spot, the action would have likely went the same. I would usually open raise from 250-350, with the lower range being more common.

[/ QUOTE ]

if I did the math right then you have odds to call this push if villain is on TT+,AQ+

[/ QUOTE ]

Note that he wasnt exactly all in, as he has like 150 more chips. So its really a 1050 raise, not 800. I think that makes it a clear fold to the reraise. The first-to-act decisions are the ones that most interest me though, like how should I have raised, if at all, in the first place?

-Kings

[/ QUOTE ]
hero must put in 805 chips to win 2,310
805/2310=.348
if villain is holding 1010+,AQ+ hero will have a .371 win rate

this is marginal, but if the villain is looser the gap widens.

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ChipEV wise it's close, but if I call and lose this I lose all bullying power. There's no reason to butt heads with another guy in a marginal EV situation if I can just fold and steal later.

zambonidrivr · #19 05-24-2005, 02:23 PM

harrington on holdem is a good book

nokona13 · #20 05-24-2005, 02:44 PM

Curtains, especially at high levels where you play and people probably have some notes on you, does making this kind of play not encourage a push with any two from the BB? Maybe you're raising your premium hands the same way, but the OP is talking about pushing all strong hands but QQ-AA, meaning when he raises with 20+BB and the blinds have 12+BB, he's like 85% to fold to a push from the blinds, making that a hugely +EV play for the blinds. What's your thought on this?