do you call with a gutshot here?

[Prevaricator]

'bettor player' ... ? A player who does the betting?

I agree with your point though.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Lol. I fold because I don't have enough imagination to see how I get payed off enough when I hit. Clearly in this particular example it would pay to have more of an imagination.

[AZK]

typo...doing too many things at once, sorry. I obviously meant better

[TonyBlair]

[ QUOTE ]
It is a fine limp.

[/ QUOTE ]

True. Every time.


I don't really see how this post flop decision could be anything other than a fold, for the reasons that have already been marked out in this thread. (Raising is always an option in NL but in this case I'd rather shoot myself).

[cero_z]

Hi Tony,

[ QUOTE ]
I don't really see how this post flop decision could be anything other than a fold,

[/ QUOTE ]

Here are some reasons I think are valid to just call:

--You don't think the bettor has much; maybe a bluff, maybe a draw, but you aren't sure. You don't think the caller has much either; maybe a draw, but there's an outside chance he's flat-calling to bring you (the much bigger stack) into the pot. So you call too, planning on being done with the hand if a diamond falls, possibly making a move at the pot if a harmless-looking card falls and your read is still weakness all around, and busting/milking the big stack if you make the nuts, depending on your read. You just call, because though you have nada, nobody's claiming this pot so far, and you may be able to. But you want to confirm your read before investing more than the pittance you've put in the pot so far.

--You have excellent control over your opponents, you read them well, but you have been running over them a little bit recently. You sense that one of them has a draw, and will not fold unless you make a very large raise (the short stack may even go all-in out of frustration if you raise). But, you know that they will fear you just for coming into the pot, so you plan to take it away on the turn when a blank falls and they both check.

--You feel certain that the caller with 3500 behind has a set.

--You brought your lucky Buddha/Buzzsaw/Duckhead charm, and thus you know that whatever happens, you will win this pot.-- Note: this last one only works for me.

[mgsimpleton]

is this the hand that stanky posted from the other perspective?? cuz if you know you're up against A5d, call!! Otherwise it's marginal but i call because i love busting people with my gutshots.

[creedofhubris]

Yep, this is the hand that Stanky posted from the viewpoint of main villain. Lots of interesting commentary over there.

[cero_z]

Hi creed,

[ QUOTE ]
Yep, this is the hand that Stanky posted from the viewpoint of main villain.

[/ QUOTE ]

Except that for some reason you gave the big-stacked opponent less money; he had $4500 in the actual hand. Not a huge oversight, but it does make a difference to Hero in this hand's implied odds.

[spahk]

i'd feel better about this call if there weren't a diamond draw in there. it also depends on the bigger stack's tendencies. if his calls indicate a lot of strength, i'd be more inclined to draw for the nuts.

[creedofhubris]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi creed,

[ QUOTE ]
Yep, this is the hand that Stanky posted from the viewpoint of main villain.

[/ QUOTE ]

Except that for some reason you gave the big-stacked opponent less money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oops, didn't mean to.