More proof that I hate all Muslims...

[Felix_Nietsche]

"The majority of Muslims don't believe the fanatics are pious."
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The fanatics are considered the cream of the Islamic crop. The Wahabi religious schools teach muslims to be extreme and ruthless of muslims who are not pure of faith. The Wahabi schools main produce religious fanatics in the same way Henry Ford produced Model Ts.


"There are billions of Muslims. The fanatical terrorists, who even if they numbered in the millions, would still be a tiny minority of all people who claim to be Muslim."
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Luckily for the rest of the world, most of the fanatics muslims do not have the economic means to carry out the homicidal desires. Your average Egyptian fanatic can't even buy a cup of Starbuck's coffee. Saying, "see the Eqyptian man (who can't afford a plastic knife) is not killing non muslims is not proof he is peaceful. It only proves that he lacks the financial resources to carry out murders.
BBC polls of the muslim world show that muslims do not like the USA and that there is a prevaling attitude that the USA deserved 9/11. Another reason why I have no respect for the muslim world.


"It would be like saying the Christians that murder abortion doctors or the Catholics who bomb Protestants in Ireland represented all Christians."
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No it is not.
The homicidal muslims though small in number are supported financially throughout the muslim world. In addition, the MAJORITY of Wahabi Imans preach death to infidels. So when was the last time a Catholic Priest or Protestant Minister preached to kill abortion doctors? Your analogy fails.


There is a small number of muslims who are sicken by the homicidal acts of the Wahabists but they are too small in number and too afraid to speak out. For them remaining silent is probably the wisest choice since their fellow muslims from Wahabi schools are taught to murder them.

[kurto]

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1.2 billion muslims hunting a few outlaw fanatics can't be a difficult chore.

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A couple of million does not equal a "few".

Furthermore, they're not all together. Should all of the millions of US Muslims be scouting the world for the fanatics? What you say makes no sense.

Should all the Catholics in the world be tracking down the IRA? What's the problem with the Catholics? They can't track down a few bad apples?

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More importantly, why haven't I heard about this manhunt? I read the news.


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This is the same news that reports more about Michael Jackson and Pitt/Jolie then what's going on in the world. And you're looking for stories about something that may be happening in India?


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Is the news trying to hide the moderate muslims?


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Why would moderate Muslims be in the news? You don't see stories about moderates anywhere... that's not news.

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no. because only when we head west do the moderates really appear. In the middle east, there is virtually no moderation in Islam.


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Actually, there was a story (I believe on 60 minutes) about a Muslim nation where the youth were pushing against the Muslim government. Women are pushing for jobs, to be able to dance, to show their faces, to bring in western culture, etc. But this was an exception... this just isn't as exciting news as stories about celebrities on trial and what comedian is in rehab in South Africa.

[MMMMMM]

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The majority of Muslims don't believe the fanatics are pious

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You're just wrong on this. Also, the more learned scholar-type Muslims tend to be among the more fanatical in outlook. As evidence, try sampling the preachings of a number of imams;-) Seriously, the religious texts support an extremist view, and the studied clergy is generally quite immoderate in outlook.

[kurto]

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If you guys want to see REAL bigotry, look at the Muslim world. There you will find, glaringly, the most blatant forms of bigotry anywhere on Earth (and it is against non-Muslims and against women).


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I think you're being too black and white. I think many Muslim nations cultures are completely bigotted. The problem is that you only hear news about the fanatics. There is 1.2 billion Muslims spread throughout the world who do not fit into this picture. Hell, I work with several Muslims.

The people arguing are not denying that there ARE Muslims who are fanatics and bigots. No one is defending them. They are defending the majority of Muslims (and their faith) who ALSO think the others are fanatics and bigots.

On a side note: I don't believe there is a religion out there that isn't bigotted. Christians (and even subsets of Christianity) all believe they are right, everyone else is wrong and they're going to hell. The Christians think the Jews are foolish. The Jews think they're the chosen people. Muslims think they have it right. Its the nature of religion to teach people to be intolerant of the faith of others.

I have also read that there is a growing section of evangelical Christians who believe America has gone down the wrong path; it should be a Christian nation and, with that, they mean women should be at home and the man is the ruler. And if a woman cheats or you a man is found to be gay, they should be stoned to death. (I don't pretend this is a majority,... neither are fanatical Muslims.)

Fundamental (non LDS) Mormons believe it is correct to steal from Christians, because Christians are the Devil's servants. (see the book, the Banner of Heaven)

My wife's friend's sister converted to... what the heck is that religion... I want to say Mormon but I don't think it is... she is not allowed to work, she is required to wait on her husband hand and foot. It is completely misogynist. And it is practiced in America.

[kurto]

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The fanatics are considered the cream of the Islamic crop.

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By themselves maybe. Moderates (ie, the majority) think (and have written and spoken extensively about this) believe they AREN'T correctly following the tenets of their faith.

I work with Muslims. They have very little in common with the terrorists.

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The Wahabi religious schools teach muslims to be extreme and ruthless of muslims who are not pure of faith. The Wahabi schools main produce religious fanatics in the same way Henry Ford produced Model Ts.


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So... I'll list all the countries with significant Muslim populations. Let me know what percentage of each country is fanatics:
There are more than 1 billion Muslims worldwide, fewer than one fifth of whom are Arab. Islam is the principal religion of much of Asia, including Indonesia (which has the world's largest Muslim population), Malaysia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Jordan, the Arabian Peninsula states, and Turkey. India also has one of the world's largest Muslim populations, although Islam is not the principal religion there. In Africa, Islam is the principal religion in Egypt, Algeria, Tunisia, Djibouti, Gambia, Guinea, Libya, Mali, Mauritania, Morocco, Niger, Senegal, Somalia, and Sudan, with sizable populations also in Chad, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Ghana, Tanzania (where the island of Zanzibar is predominantly Muslim), and Nigeria.

In Europe, Albania is predominantly Muslim, and, historically, Bulgaria, Bosnia, Macedonia, and Georgia have had Muslim populations. Elsewhere in Europe, immigrant communities of Muslims from N Africa, Turkey, and Asia exist in France, Germany, and Great Britain. In the Americas the Islamic population has substantially increased in recent years, both from conversions and the immigration of adherents from other parts of the world. In the United States, the number of Muslims has been variably estimated at 2-6 million; 20% of the population of Suriname is Muslim

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Luckily for the rest of the world, most of the fanatics muslims do not have the economic means to carry out the homicidal desires. Your average Egyptian fanatic can't even buy a cup of Starbuck's coffee. Saying, "see the Eqyptian man (who can't afford a plastic knife) is not killing non muslims is not proof he is peaceful. It only proves that he lacks the financial resources to carry out murders.


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You are a little bigot, aren't you. I see, a Muslim who hasn't killed someone just is too poor to do so. Oddly enough, I've heard people make similar statements about blacks.

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BBC polls of the muslim world show that muslims do not like the USA and that there is a prevaling attitude that the USA deserved 9/11. Another reason why I have no respect for the muslim world.


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two things
(1) I really doubt the BBC polled the Muslim world. It would take years.
(2) There are many reasons for many Muslim nations to hate the US. Reasons that have NOTHING to do with their religion.

Reminds me of the many neocons who talked about nuking France on the Yahoo Politics board. Perhaps the US does a lot of things to make people in different nations hate them? Oddly enough, since Bush has been in office, that number has grown. Maybe they've all been converted to Islam?

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No it is not.
The homicidal muslims though small in number are supported financially throughout the muslim world.

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I see... you are randomly say that the MAJORITY of Muslims are supporting them? They are supported by fellow extremists. Just because they aren't a majority doesn't mean they don't have a lot of resources.

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In addition, the MAJORITY of Wahabi Imans preach death to infidels.

[/ QUOTE ] Of the 1.2 billion Muslims... how many of them follow this sect? On another note, the Pope preaches that one cannot use condoms or have premarital sex. The number of Catholics I've met that followed this: 1.

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So when was the last time a Catholic Priest or Protestant Minister preached to kill abortion doctors?

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As I recall, the guy who shot abortion doctors was part of an organized church group and he was supported and rallied behind by his church.

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Your analogy fails.


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No it didn't. The anology was to show you why a group is not necessarily represented by the actions of a minority. Something like 90% of all murders are committed by men. Yet, the majority of men do not commit murder. Does this mean that we should judge ALL men by the minority of men who commit these heinous acts? If we followed your logic, we should.

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There is a small number of muslims who are sicken by the homicidal acts of the Wahabists but they are too small in number and too afraid to speak out.

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I would ask you to supply numbers but you're so clearing just stereotyping and making up your own information.

[Cyrus]

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My highest respect goes to the Later Day Saints (the Morm<font color="red">a</font>ns).

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Oh God. Oh God. I'm trying my best to resist the temptation to comment on that !

[InchoateHand]

Are you really, seriously, this [censored] stupid?

I'm no friend of organized religion, but talking about "muslims" as a monolithic entity is about as usefully as talking about "colors" as a singular adjective.

As someone who reads and writes arabic, as well as the national language of the nation containing the single largest population of "muslims" in the world, I can safely say you are [censored] stupid, talking out of your ass, entirely uninformed and thoroughly laughable. To anyone with a modicum of education or experience, you are a [censored] joke.


You are parroting something you heard misquoted from Bernard Lewis (the moron) on Faux News (oh heavens-to-Betsy, love that accuracy in reporting) and trying to claim it as insight. You are a [censored] joke. I don't know why I get frusterated at assholes like you. Actually, I do. Most Americans are woefully blind to the world around them. They don't even care. Sure, they hate A-RABS, and other Musselmens, but they don't claim to have any understanding of the world around them---[censored], they don't even know whats happening in their county, let alone their state.

Its shits like you with access to more information who insist on maintaining a mind-numbingly myopic stance that really brings out the homicidal urge in the smarter/better of us.

Oh well. Hopefully something horrible happens to you.

[trippin bily]

Hey Kurto,
How about some examples of the "moderate" muslims you say you read about. Any links or articles we can all see ??

[kurto]

Do some research. Why don't you search for Islam and read some writings from some organizations.

Where do you work? I work in NYC and work with, go out to dinner with/party with Muslims.

The web is FILLED with information about it.

Watch something besides Fox.

Sheesh.

There's 1.2 BILLION Muslims. The closeminded ignorance of the bigots is so tiring and sad.

You know... all the bigotted morons who are always say, "Marriage is between a man and a woman and has always been that way."

So, I did 5 minutes of research and cited sources showing that gay marriage has been found in various cultures in various civilizations throughout time.

So all the ignorant just stick their heads in the sand and do what they do best... ignore it and continue to believe their bigotted biases.

If you had any interest in being openminded, you'll find some stuff on your own.

On another note.... Just to show the mindnumbingly horrific logic of the bigots... if there was a rash of murders by Latvians... the bigots would conclude all Latvians are cold blooded murders. They would say, "you don't see news stories about moderate Latvians." Well, you don't see ANY stories about Latvians (other then obviously Bush's visit there.) Americans don't read about other religions, other people, we don't care much for world news unless it directly effects us.

The people prattling on about "ALL MUSLIMS" are Clearly morons. As I posted earlier, from Wikipedia, the distribution of Muslim populations throughout the world. Can you fathom 1.2 Billion people all over the world. Only a complete moron would pretend that they could generalize about all Muslims. The fact that you one would ask for proof that there are moderate Muslims is staggering.

Engage your brain.

[MMMMMM]

Yes, there are some moderate Muslims. Yes, there are fanatics of other faiths as well.

The philosophical foundation of Islam itself supports extremism. The fanatics can point to scripture for support, and most imams interpret the scriptures in such manner as well. They are the ones studied in Islam; do you really think they are wrong, without (I'm guessing) reading the texts yourself? This philosophical support of Islam for extremism is a real problem, and I don't think there is a solution in the philosophical sense. Islam is philosophically opposed to all other religions, and Islam is intrinsically wedded to the mundane and to political matters as well. The ultimate goal of Islam is to bring the whole world into alignment with God's wishes and words as spelled out in the Koran--incuding through use of force if need be. This is true intolerance at the deepest philosophical level.

It's not the same as, say, Christianity in this regard for very clear philosophical reasons. While I am not a Christian (except in the sense of great admiration for Jesus' demonstration and teachings of love and forgiveness towards even the cruelest of enemies), I can see most striking differences in the philosophical sense. Do not confuse the actions of some Muslims and Christians with the actual teachings of the religion. The actual teachings of the two religions are night and day apart in terms of what the adherents should do on this Earth. I suspect you may not be aware of this because of the stoning example you gave--which is backwards. Christianity teaches that women who cheat should NOT be stoned--as the parable of Jesus and the adultress illustrates. You may be thinking of Old Testament Judaism instead.

Essentially, Christianity is pacifist in the purest philosophical sense (however many adherents do not realize this). Islam however is not pacifist philosophically, and is philosophicaly committed to using force if need be to bring about Allah's will on Earth. This is very dangerous. Of course many Muslims may not realize this, just as many lay Catholics may not know very much about their own religion. But the Islamic extremists generally do have the support of scripture, as scary as that sounds. This is not to say that the actions of all terrorists are scripturally supported, though.