bubble idiocy

[Degen]

wow dude

them are some tight calling standards


i call AK right here all day and probably TT as well.


I posted a very similar hand curtains and you said i should be calling here with TT (though I was SB and the button pushed).


Andre

[grimel]

If I play the hand people gets to make a fold/all-in choice preflop at least 70% of the time.

[curtains]

If Button pushes any two here, you are throwing away money calling with AKo.

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
so i guess you don't like to double up too much?

[/ QUOTE ]

it is my sincere opinion that you post too much while thinking and reading too little.

go run some goddamn icm calculations, and report back. personally in the hand posted, if the button pushed, i'd have to think really hard about my AK, and i'd probably fold it. assuming for instance the button to be pushing any two cards here, using eastbay's calculator, and a 30+3, calling AKs loses $1.23 relative to folding. AKo loses $2.93. against the any 2 hand set, 77 loses $2.02, while 88 wins $.86. these all start you with an equity of $67.32 if you fold the hand, so 88 for instance we're talking about being a .3% ev improver.

tightening the hand set to something like, say any pair, any ace, any king, Q9+ yields more numbers of course:

AKs -> loses $.48
AKo -> loses $1.94
QQ -> wins $2.70
JJ -> loses $.07
TT -> loses $2.33

so yeah, mostly, start doing these sorts of calculation, and realize that a) making every +EV play is not necessarilly right, since well, you may not want to make your variance absolutely skyrocket just so that you can make another 48 cents and b) busting out really sucks, especially when another player is criminally short.

also, for good measure, you "pointed out" to curtains that you had posted some other hand and he had given some other answer. well, to that, i answer, different hands are different hands. a hand "like" another hand is not the same as the other hand, it's like it.

approaching one of the best players and best posters on the board with a line quite as trite and stupid as "i guess you don't like doubling up" means that perhaps you should consider, maybe, that he was right and you were wrong. instead of just oh, assuming that you're always right.

citanul

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]

If Button pushes any two here, you are throwing away money calling with AKo.

[/ QUOTE ]

i guess i could have said it like that, but i was in the typing mood.

citanul

[curtains]

Also I think that TT+99 are signifigantly stronger than AK against any 2 pushes. (And I think 88 probably is also, and maybe 77?)

Oh you already mentioned that above... btw Im very confused, AK does better against the tighter range than the any 2 range? At least that's how I'm reading your analysis.

[citanul]

yah, when i said this:

[ QUOTE ]
assuming for instance the button to be pushing any two cards here, using eastbay's calculator, and a 30+3, calling AKs loses $1.23 relative to folding. AKo loses $2.93. against the any 2 hand set, 77 loses $2.02, while 88 wins $.86. these all start you with an equity of $67.32 if you fold the hand, so 88 for instance we're talking about being a .3% ev improver.

[/ QUOTE ]

i implied, but badly, that 77 loses, while 88 and above all win. AK as i said, loses.

citanul

[Degen]

thank you for the thoughtful reply

i deleted that line



Andre

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
yah, when i said this:

[ QUOTE ]
assuming for instance the button to be pushing any two cards here, using eastbay's calculator, and a 30+3, calling AKs loses $1.23 relative to folding. AKo loses $2.93. against the any 2 hand set, 77 loses $2.02, while 88 wins $.86. these all start you with an equity of $67.32 if you fold the hand, so 88 for instance we're talking about being a .3% ev improver.

[/ QUOTE ]

i implied, but badly, that 77 loses, while 88 and above all win. AK as i said, loses.

citanul

[/ QUOTE ]

No yes but Im confused...it seems like you say AK loses 2.50 to an any 2 allin, but less to a tighter range.

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
yah, when i said this:

[ QUOTE ]
assuming for instance the button to be pushing any two cards here, using eastbay's calculator, and a 30+3, calling AKs loses $1.23 relative to folding. AKo loses $2.93. against the any 2 hand set, 77 loses $2.02, while 88 wins $.86. these all start you with an equity of $67.32 if you fold the hand, so 88 for instance we're talking about being a .3% ev improver.

[/ QUOTE ]

i implied, but badly, that 77 loses, while 88 and above all win. AK as i said, loses.

citanul

[/ QUOTE ]

No yes but Im confused...it seems like you say AK loses 2.50 to an any 2 allin, but less to a tighter range.

[/ QUOTE ]

yah, that's what i said. i'm just tellin you what the calculator said man.

i'm assuming it's because all the rag hands run better against AK than do the many hands in the tighter range that are dominated by ak. the tight range has pairs, some queens, but mostly hands that are dominated, the other one has a whole pile of hands that while crappy, have to run better than the domination. for instance, and i'm sure you know this, AKc v A7d => 70.7/29.3 AKc v 7d 2h => 69.3/30.7. i'm assuming it's a big pile of that sort of stuff, and the inclusion of many hands that are not so crappy as 72o (like T9s, which is a 61/39 dog) that brings the numbers in. like you said, some things run better against wider ranges, some better against tighter ranges. at least that's what i am working with.

citanul