Deliberately annoying the table as a tactic

[scottgiese]

You say you "usually never show [your] cards, ever, unless..." -- okay, that right there highlights a problem in your logic. You can't really "usually never" do something; you either never do it, or you sometimes do it, or you always do it. So which is it gonna be?

I say, if you're going to show your cards (and I did say "if"), you should really have a good reason to do so. That reason may be to show everyone what a good play you made to earn their admiration and respect, or it may make the game "friendlier" and add to your enjoyment, or it may be a move designed to throw your opponents off in later hands. Anytime you show your cards, you are giving your opponents free information, but I won't deny that showing cards may be correct strategy in the hands of an expert.

Feeling that your "opponent was playing well, and folded properly" is not a good reason in and of itself to show cards, however. You're reinforcing your opponents' behavior when they make the right play, which is generally only a good poker play in the Bizarro world. You might want to show down a big hand if you tend to bluff a lot and want people to always think you're betting with big hands, so they'll keep folding. But good players will see through this, and know you were probaby bluffing if you *didn't* show your cards on other hands. You're now giving away info on how often you bluff, even on hands you aren't showing.

Personally, I say if people want to see my cards, they can put their money in the pot. I tend to get amnesia when nobody calls me.

[PairTheBoard]

I thought your topic "deliberately annoying the table" was going to be about insulting the other players' mothers or something. I was once instructed by the floorman at Binions that this is Not part of the game.

PairTheBoard

[diebitter]

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Sitting out usually implies that you're not being dealt in any hands but are waiting for the 'run' of bad cards to be over. I probably misinterpreted your statement.

b

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tnx for reply. I see your point now - it was my fault for using ambiguous English in the first place!

[diebitter]

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You say you "usually never show [your] cards, ever, unless..." -- okay, that right there highlights a problem in your logic. You can't really "usually never" do something; you either never do it, or you sometimes do it, or you always do it. So which is it gonna be?


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You're waaaay too pedantic, bud. take 'usually' to mean 'most of the time' if you like, which I think translates into 'sometimes' in your simplified logic system.

Certainty and frequency of doing stuff sometimes needs a little more than 'never/sometimes/always' in the real world, doesn't it? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Okay, I should have used the words 'usually don't' but if you have to point a flaw out here, make it my bad English, not bad logic

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I say, if you're going to show your cards (and I did say "if"), you should really have a good reason to do so.

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Fair enough. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

[kiddj]

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I thought your topic "deliberately annoying the table" was going to be about insulting the other players' mothers or something. I was once instructed by the floorman at Binions that this is Not part of the game.

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I have used the "mother attack" online before. But I reserve the tactic for jackoffs who are berating the fish due to ego or tilt problems.

There was this guy (I refer to them as poachers) who was relentlessly picking on one player at the table. The "fish" was playing every hand and getting some lucky breaks. I finally told the poacher to STFU and let people play how they want. He then started atacking my "terrible" play and calling me gay. (This is what immature passive-aggressive latents always do: go for the "gay" attack.) So I proceeded to advise him of all kinds of things I believed his mother to be doing with people of all nationalities. Then I started joking a bit to try and calm him down.

This all had a pretty good effect on the table: everyone loosened up a bit, the poacher went on complete tilt, i looked like the good guy, the salmon didn't leave: and he even folded sometimes to my river bets which he wasn't doing before.

[scottgiese]

You misunderstand me. I'm not saying your grammar is bad, I'm saying that's really the wrong attitute to have about showing cards in the first place.

Many players know it's usually wrong to show cards when they don't have to, but then they show 'em anyhow. Better to either not show at all, or have very good reasons for why you're doing it.

I'd start with actually never showing (as opposed to almost never), if I were you. You're much less likely to give away useful information this way. Against good opponents, be especially careful, because they may pick up a pattern on when you show cards and when you don't. Now, you're giving them information when you show cards *and* when you don't show.

I'm usually never this pedantic. No, that's not quite true.

[PairTheBoard]

LOL. Nice Move.

PTB

[purnell]

My ante:

Showing bluffs gives away factual information, and is very rarely +ev. It does have the effect of loosening up your opponents, but they are all trying to "get you back". This is not a good situation. I think it's better to concentrate on your decisions, and let the image take care of itself.

[diebitter]

You are aboslutely correct - I've taken this to heart. I won't be showing my cards again.


tnx

[Wally Weeks]

I think showing could be good, but I'm not too sure. For the most part, I don't like to show my bluffs. But once in awhile I think it can create some possibly interesting opportunities or table conditions you may not have experienced. If anything, you can experiment and see what happens when the entire table is frothing at the mouth.

If the table will loosen up on you (e.g. calling down with mid pair or worse), then you'll get a few bucks thrown your way before they adjust appropriately...assuming that your opponents are paying attention. I'd definitely avoid playing hands out of position preflop and stealing blinds for awhile.

I've only been playing for a couple months online, but I find that when multitabling I'm too lazy to even think about the "show cards" button...esp. since the timer is really short anyway.

Like someone else said, there's other things to pay attention to or work on that are much more important than this.

Regards,
Wally