Straight on turn....do you play different?

[silkyslim]

i agree pot is way too big to fold

[Fantam]

I would definitely have called on the river. The pot was huge by then, and while you might have been beaten by a flush, its possible that you still had the best hand.

Sometimes in a huge pot like that you will have the best hand and win, so its worth sacrificing a bet or two here or there to find out in these situations in the long run. The times you win the pot will more than make up for the times you lose a few bets.

[scotty34]

[ QUOTE ]
If I folded and saw I would have won that 40bb pot, I would have bit down on a rifle barrel I think. It was worth the 2 bb to save my sanity. I guess its like insurance. I need to learn not to take this game so seriously!

[/ QUOTE ]

The call for sanity is perfectly acceptable, as it is only a couple of dollars. However, I seriously do not think this is a profitable call. Just look at the action up to this point. Villain was cold-calling up to 3-bets! You just do not do that with a pocket pair hoping to hit a set of 8's on the river. You do not call 3 cold on the flop with a backdoor straight draw holding only a T. You do not bluff 3-bet a 40BB pot on the river hoping everyone else will fold. Unless you have some read that Villain is an absolute retard, beyond your normal retards, his play is consistent with a flush and only a flush. I think it would be a stretch to say we are good 1 time in 50.

[AmarilloJim1]

I don't think you should have raised the flop with a four straight. The only time I would do this is if I was buying a free card, and there was no way you were gettting a free card with those LAG's.

- Jim

[deception5]

[ QUOTE ]
The call for sanity is perfectly acceptable, as it is only a couple of dollars. However, I seriously do not think this is a profitable call. Just look at the action up to this point. Villain was cold-calling up to 3-bets! You just do not do that with a pocket pair hoping to hit a set of 8's on the river. You do not call 3 cold on the flop with a backdoor straight draw holding only a T. You do not bluff 3-bet a 40BB pot on the river hoping everyone else will fold. Unless you have some read that Villain is an absolute retard, beyond your normal retards, his play is consistent with a flush and only a flush. I think it would be a stretch to say we are good 1 time in 50.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
No great reads on villain. He's pretty new to the table. Maybe 5-10 hands that he played half of.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is reason enough that you might be good 1 time in 20. Also KT for a split or T9s might play the hand this way.

And against an unknown at this limit - well you can't be 95% sure. 2 days ago I flopped the nut straight (held AQs) and after 2 capped streets with 5 players the flush completing card comes down. I bet, got raised and called the raise. Turned out to be a bluff against 4 players with A8s which didn't even hit the board.

[deception5]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think you should have raised the flop with a four straight.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this part of your post. I think I would want one more caller between you and the opening better to raise. I would call and then if the mainiac raised I would reraise and cap. Capping the flop is fine as long as you can be sure that there are 4 players involved. If you knew maniac would at least call(or raise) behind then I agree with the raise. I would just be wary of blowing away the field.

[ QUOTE ]
The only time I would do this is if I was buying a free card, and there was no way you were gettting a free card with those LAG's.

[/ QUOTE ]

This part I don't agree with. You are raising because 32% of the time you will hit your straight and take down a huge pot. If you can raise and have 3 people call you are making money (since you own ~32% of the pot but are only putting in 25%).

[scotty34]

I don't think our equity is 32% in this case. We only have 6 clean outs (excluding the two diamonds) to the nut straight. Also, if we do hit on the turn, there is a good chance of a set/two pair being out there, which sets up a full house and flush redraw.

[AmarilloJim1]

I see what you mean about pumping the pot; however, raising with a draw is a semi-bluff but and is only profitable if:

1) you think your opponents might fold (which they won't)

and

2) you have a chance of having the best hand.

Without both of these variables, I think you will lose money in the long run.

Do you still disagree?

[homebrewer]

It doesn't look like you could do too much different here. Either way, that maniac is going to get you involved a bit more than you might like to be with this hand.

Ugh! That's an ugly river card. But, the pot is huge. Hate to fold a winner here. I think you gotta call it down.

[Buckmulligan]

The flop raise is not appropriate. We don't have the best hand, and aren't folding the field; actually, we will probably fold most of the field leaving us heads up with a better hand. draw here.
Also, I think we can safely fold the river after the 3 bet.