Online timing tells - Page 2

SmileyEH · #11 05-17-2005, 11:47 PM

I find that extremely quick raises from a decent player are often flush draw + overcards type hands. If you have an overpair and you get check raised for example, you are going to think for a while before deciding whether to 3bet or raise the turn for example.

-SmileyEH

MicroBob · #12 05-18-2005, 12:26 AM

I'm pretty much in agreement with the assessment on online-tells as described in most of this thread.

i had a situation the other day where my opponent had a brief hesitation on the flop and checked. Seemed like a 'thoughtful' pause to me.
I bet the flop...and he called reasonably quickly.
Turn was check, bet, C/R!!
I knew it was coming but I bet whatever hand I had missed with anyway. Folded to his C/R (for better or worse) and wished I had taken the free-card in that situation.

No biggie.

I've had several others of the variety you guys have described here.

The ones where the opponet is betting REALLY fast just 'feels' like he is trying to push me out. I'm far more likely to call down with my marginal holding (bottom pair or A-high) based on my 'timing-read' there.

Maybe I'm just nuts too. I can conceiveably be stupid enough to convince myself that "most of the time" whatever timing-tell I'm getting is correct....but it also could just be related to all the 'party is rigged' folks who say that "most of the time" they have 'noticed' that the best hand doesn't hold up.

I'm willing to acknowledge the possibility that my 'feelings' on timing-tells aren't getting me anywhere and that my hunch that I've had some limited success on such tells is just a case of my own optimistic and selective memory.

NLSoldier · #13 05-18-2005, 12:47 AM

I think there is a lot of merit in online timing tells.

Here is one crazy play I made because of one such tell[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, SB raises, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG folds, SB calls.

River: (6.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, Hero 3-bets, SB folds.

Final Pot: 11.50 BB

fearme · #14 05-18-2005, 01:04 AM

they exist, and there are many

Chris Daddy Cool · #15 05-18-2005, 01:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Generally speaking, I think a long, deliberate pause is likely to be a sign of strength, whereas a shorter "thoughtful" pause can indicate weakness.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is in caro's book of tells i think. one thing i do sometimes is insta-bet as a reverse tell of sorts. not sure if it really works though. but some of the biggest pots i've won was betting and raising nonstop without hesitation with the flopped nuts or sets. though that has a lot to do with other things too i'm sure.

MicroBob · #16 05-18-2005, 01:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
but some of the biggest pots i've won was betting and raising nonstop without hesitation with the flopped nuts or sets.

[/ QUOTE ]

absolutely.

some context from previous hands makes a difference on these...but this is an approach I take often as well.

also - I think that opponents who insta-bet/raise on each round after losing a tough hand (maybe I caught my draw on the river) is more likely to indicate 'totally missed the flop'.
It's something of a tilt-induced "I'm going to push this drawing MF'er out of the pot".

Nate tha' Great · #17 05-18-2005, 01:36 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Generally speaking, I think a long, deliberate pause is likely to be a sign of strength, whereas a shorter "thoughtful" pause can indicate weakness.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is in caro's book of tells i think. one thing i do sometimes is insta-bet as a reverse tell of sorts. not sure if it really works though. but some of the biggest pots i've won was betting and raising nonstop without hesitation with the flopped nuts or sets. though that has a lot to do with other things too i'm sure.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whether people interpet very quick bets as a sign of weakness or strength I'm not certain, but one obvious benefit to betting quickly is that it deprives your opponents of a couple of extra seconds to think about their best course of action.

Nate tha' Great · #18 05-18-2005, 01:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
but some of the biggest pots i've won was betting and raising nonstop without hesitation with the flopped nuts or sets.

[/ QUOTE ]

absolutely.

some context from previous hands makes a difference on these...but this is an approach I take often as well.

also - I think that opponents who insta-bet/raise on each round after losing a tough hand (maybe I caught my draw on the river) is more likely to indicate 'totally missed the flop'.
It's something of a tilt-induced "I'm going to push this drawing MF'er out of the pot".

[/ QUOTE ]

Ironically, one of the times that I'll deliberately bet quickly (or even use the auto-raise button) is when I've just taken a bad beat, and my opponent thinks that I may be tilting.

Blarg · #19 05-18-2005, 02:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
just realize which opps are 6-tabling because, obviously, this tell i null against them....

[/ QUOTE ]

I get lots of laughs out of things like what happened to me last night.

Some guy goes, "Oh no, here comes the slooow play. AGAIN." When it's my turn.

There's no way to explain to him that I'm not busting anyone's balls or trying to be clever; I'm just busy recordkeeping and attending to three or four other tables. What's even goofier about thinking I'm yet again up to some nefarious/stupid attempt to be clever by drawing out my play is that Party is regularly timing people out lately, and all kinds of people on the table are having trouble.

So some people are making mountains out of molehills and misinterpreting like crazy. I see some saying, THIS TABLE IS SO SLOW when actually it hasn't been slow at all; they're just impatient weenies or something.

I think it's very funny when someone tries to cuss me out for my "tells" when really my play speed is almost entirely random because of Party server slowdowns and because I'm multi-tabling and often just busy on another table or keeping records -- or even reading 2+2!

theBruiser500 · #20 05-18-2005, 03:03 AM

there are a lot of timing tells, timing matters a lot IMO (maybe more so in NL short handed, some people deny that it matters but i think it's huge). i was juist watching 1800gambler play some HU limit and he instacapped the river and at the time my thought was (board unpaired, 3 flush), "hm, wonder how good of a flush you can fold here." sure enough gambler showsdown nut flush