Interesting KJo hand level 3 $109

[Newt_Buggs]

care to explain why?

[Nick B.]

yea, KJ is a monster in the CO 5 handed. You are also implying that raising with KJo in the CO 5 handed is a -ev move since you say that you are losing chips that could be useful for fold equity. Also this is a $109 sng, where stealing the blind is common.

[Newt_Buggs]

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KJ is a monster in the CO 5 handed.

[/ QUOTE ]
against 3 random hands, you will run into KJs,KQ,A2+,22+ 52.6% of the time. KJ is definitly not a monster here

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this is a $109 sng, where stealing the blind is common

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I was implying that raising here is probably +chip EV, but could be -$EV for the tournament. Your above statement is exactly why this is true. blind stealing is very effective, and everyone is aware of that. However, the profitability of steals drops significantly when people can recognize a steal. By raising this hand from the CO, you are beginning to make your opponents aware that you are aggressive. If 15 hands later when the blinds are 100/200 and you push from the CO w 22, the BB is more likely to remember you raising his blind before and be more inclined to call with a hand like 77/A9 which is very -EV for you.

I'm not advocating a fold necessarily, although many on this board will. I'm simply showing that there are valid reasons for folding this under the right table conditions.

[curtains]

I raise here with KJo, but I agree it's obviously not a monster. The idea of not raising to effect your later is hogwash, and it amazes me that so many people continue to act as though a raise early in the tournament will suddenly have everyone calling your allins later in the event.

[James282]

You can justify almost anything under the guise of "table conditions." The average 109 SnG has people who are tight enough to fold to the raise in this spot, but people who aren't going to remember every single time you raised their blind. And even if they did, it's highly unlikely that they would properly adjust. You have a +EV situation, you take it. Don't think yourself out of great spots to gather chips.
-James

[citanul]

what in the blue hell are you doing in this forum?

you, nick, and curtains have already handled all the actual stuff that needs to be said here, so i'll just leave my commentary to "wtf are you doing here?"

citanul

[Newt_Buggs]

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it amazes me that so many people continue to act as though a raise early in the tournament will suddenly have everyone calling your allins later in the event.

[/ QUOTE ]
If you position raise every hand when it is folded to you in the CO or later will people notice and call with a wider range? Of course they will. What if you raise half of the time? yup, their range is still going to increase. Now what do you do when someone who hasn't played a hand the whole tournament sudenly raises for the first time? You quickly muck everything but a monster. There is no line when people will suddenly go from respecting you to calling with a wide range of hands. If raising every hand from position increases your opponents calling range, then every hand that you are raising is contributing to this effect. Of course raising one hand is going to have an imperceptible effect but its still there.

of course, if you get delt AA next hand this effect is a good thing, but for obvious reasons this is not as influential

[James282]

[ QUOTE ]
what in the blue hell are you doing in this forum?

you, nick, and curtains have already handled all the actual stuff that needs to be said here, so i'll just leave my commentary to "wtf are you doing here?"

citanul

[/ QUOTE ]

Someone told me this was the forum with the worst strategy advice in twoplustwo. I was thinking, NO WAY! So I decided to check it out. Sadly, he was correct.
-James

[James282]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

it amazes me that so many people continue to act as though a raise early in the tournament will suddenly have everyone calling your allins later in the event.

[/ QUOTE ]
If you position raise every hand when it is folded to you in the CO or later will people notice and call with a wider range? Of course they will. What if you raise half of the time? yup, their range is still going to increase. Now what do you do when someone who hasn't played a hand the whole tournament sudenly raises for the first time? You quickly muck everything but a monster. There is no line when people will suddenly go from respecting you to calling with a wide range of hands. If raising every hand from position increases your opponents calling range, then every hand that you are raising is contributing to this effect. Of course raising one hand is going to have an imperceptible effect but its still there.

of course, if you get delt AA next hand this effect is a good thing, but for obvious reasons this is not as influential

[/ QUOTE ]

Where did anyone suggest raising all the time, or half of the time? If you made KJo the basement of hands that you raised with, you'd still be under 15 percent. I don't like throwing around the terms weak-tight and misguided, but sometimes you need to call a spade a spade.
-James

[curtains]

I'm sorry I really don't beleive that someone is going to decide to call you later on in a tournament with a weaker hand, because they noticed you stole the blinds 2 times in the 25-50 and 50-100 round. People use this abstract reasoning as an excuse to play tight so often on this forum in absurd situations.