Worth the crying call here?

[ResidentParanoid]

ATo is probably marginal as far as being a long term winner in this spot. After much wrangling with the hand, I play it in the same category as A7o. Raising is just a variance play, at best, because you probably won't fold many in this game, besides already having 3 in there. Folding is the right move.

Once you flop top two, it's hard to muck it; although in a loose passive LL game, my biggest lesson learned was to stop calling turn raises without a real hand or draw. With all those pre-flop callers, you really want *at least* two pair to continue. Top two is probably enough to call here, but I'm not liking it much.

[cybertilt]

Zuluking, I think you played it properly. With these pot odds you only need to win one out of five, and should.
The only thing I would have done differently is if your going to call the river, why not raise the turn and slow him down. I don't think he is good enough to lay down trip 7s, but I beat he won't bet into you on the river (thus costing you the same) but giving you a chance to buy the pot. If he re-raises you, you can lay it down right there.

[cpk]

I can agree with you that raising is not correct, but folding ATo is horribly incorrect in a game where other people are just as likely to play A3 as they are AJ. You're just throwing away tons of cash, here.

Remember, adapt to the game. What is optimal in an average 10-20 game is considerably less than optimal in this game.

[bernie]

"Leans over to me and says, "I slow-played 'em to sucker you in."

what a moron. too bad an A or the Ts didnt show up...though he actually played it fine, his line indicates he thinks he has a lock hand from the flop. kinda vulnerable, dont ya think? love these idiots in the game and the way they think...dipshits. love it when they rebuy later in the session

btw...i probably wouldve called. out of curiousity if anything...since he could have turned 2 pair also...

preflop, if youre raise isnt going to get anyone out, i wouldnt.
it's really not a bad holding in a game where many play any A. id probably fold it preflop here because it can be tough to play postflop because of the wide range of hands they limp with...i much prefer it suited. but there are merits to playing decent A hands against any A players. im not comfortable with some of those hands but they can be money makers if played right...

b

[bernie]

if this was a calling station check raising you, id be more inclined not to call the river. they usually dont checkraise with anything less than a set here. the bet only when they have it, but make strong, sometimes action killing moves when they 'really' have it...

but calling wouldnt be a mistake either. i use the gag reflex rule here...if you can lay it down, and if you layed down the winner, will you be heaving your guts? if yes, call, youre not sure enough of the hand...

kind of like clarks rule, if you have to ask, you sould call.

b

[zuluking]

The guy WAS a calling station and re-bought twice that night. After his comment to me I said, "Nice hand, well played.", just like I've been taught here on two-plus-two!

[Vehn]

Just because people will play worse aces doesn't mean its not a completely asstastic hand.

[cpk]

A hand with 27.6% equity 5-handed is "asstastic?" I guess you always muck 87s here, too, then--it only has 22% equity.

[Vehn]

No offence but simulations mean nothing. 87s is lightyears ahead of AT here. I'd say "I'll let others elaborate" but they already have [img]/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

[cpk]

Simulations aren't everything, but it's tough to explain away a 38% edge. I've given enough justification based on the context of the situation. You want to throw away easy profit? Be my guest.