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#11
05-07-2005, 01:53 AM
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Re: 67 from the blind
Button was anything but a LAG - he was passive. I was just saying that when fish flop something better than a pair, they usually wait until the turn to raise.
How do you figure nobody is folding on the turn? MP1 had to call 2 BB's cold...you think he would've been more likely to fold for 2 SB's on the flop? I think I should've bet/folded the river because these wimps aren't raising an expensive street without a hand better than mine and if my 2 pair are good they check thru, losing me a value bet. 
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#12
05-07-2005, 01:55 AM
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Re: 67 from the blind
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] But given the turn card, how the heck is a turn C/R overboard if you like it on the flop? [/ QUOTE ] Because you got raised on the flop after leading into 6 players w/ TP6K, haven't improved, and are facing yet another bet from a player who could have taken a free card against multiple opponents. [/ QUOTE ] Meh...multiple opponents... there were 2 opponents and if I posted this hand from button's perspective, everyone would be telling me to not take the free card on my middle pair flush draw and take down the pot right there.
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#13
05-07-2005, 02:02 AM
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Re: 67 from the blind
[ QUOTE ]
and if I posted this hand from button's perspective, everyone would be telling me to not take the free card on my middle pair flush draw and take down the pot right there. [/ QUOTE ] Except that no one knows that the button has/had middle pair and a flushdraw. If you say he's passive then that's about the best thing he can have as far as you're concerned after he bets the turn.
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#14
05-07-2005, 02:15 AM
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Re: 67 from the blind
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] and if I posted this hand from button's perspective, everyone would be telling me to not take the free card on my middle pair flush draw and take down the pot right there. [/ QUOTE ] Except that no one knows that the button has/had middle pair and a flushdraw. If you say he's passive then that's about the best thing he can have as far as you're concerned after he bets the turn. [/ QUOTE ] So I should only raise when I "know" I have my opponent beat?
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#15
05-07-2005, 02:23 AM
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Re: 67 from the blind
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] and if I posted this hand from button's perspective, everyone would be telling me to not take the free card on my middle pair flush draw and take down the pot right there. [/ QUOTE ] Except that no one knows that the button has/had middle pair and a flushdraw. If you say he's passive then that's about the best thing he can have as far as you're concerned after he bets the turn. [/ QUOTE ] So I should only raise when I "know" I have my opponent beat? [/ QUOTE ] Did I say that? How about not raising him when the vast majority of what he's betting DOES have you beat?
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#16
05-07-2005, 02:28 AM
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Re: 67 from the blind
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] and if I posted this hand from button's perspective, everyone would be telling me to not take the free card on my middle pair flush draw and take down the pot right there. [/ QUOTE ] Except that no one knows that the button has/had middle pair and a flushdraw. If you say he's passive then that's about the best thing he can have as far as you're concerned after he bets the turn. [/ QUOTE ] So I should only raise when I "know" I have my opponent beat? [/ QUOTE ] Did I say that? How about not raising him when the vast majority of what he's betting DOES have you beat? [/ QUOTE ] Given my read, I would take issue with "vast majority". That aside, why should I C/R the flop if the vast majority of his hands beat me? Does it look to you like the turn helped him?
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#17
05-07-2005, 02:36 AM
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Re: 67 from the blind
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] and if I posted this hand from button's perspective, everyone would be telling me to not take the free card on my middle pair flush draw and take down the pot right there. [/ QUOTE ] Except that no one knows that the button has/had middle pair and a flushdraw. If you say he's passive then that's about the best thing he can have as far as you're concerned after he bets the turn. [/ QUOTE ] So I should only raise when I "know" I have my opponent beat? [/ QUOTE ] Did I say that? How about not raising him when the vast majority of what he's betting DOES have you beat? [/ QUOTE ] Given my read, I would take issue with "vast majority". That aside, why should I C/R the flop if the vast majority of his hands beat me? Does it look to you like the turn helped him? [/ QUOTE ] Well, I really never said anything about a flop CR, but the reason why its different is because a lot of players will bet from the button after being checked to with a lot of hands. However, once you lead and then the button raises you and bets again on the turn when he could take a free card if he had a flushdraw, his range of holdings narrow and become much stronger than they would be if he simply bet the flop after having 6 players check to him. This is even more true if the button is passive which you have already said he is. Most passive players don't raise draws and decline a free card, nor do they raise and bet with hands weaker than top pair no kicker.
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#18
05-07-2005, 03:07 AM
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Re: 67 from the blind
Fair enough -
Like I said though - donks like this guy hardly ever raise the flop with 2 pair or a set; they love to wait 'till the turn. The best hand I figured him for was A7; I just thought a flush draw was at least as likely. When checked to 3-handed with position, even weak players are capable of a semi-bluff IMO. MP1 (who I tried to push out on the turn by making him call 2 BB's cold - that was a big factor in my C/R which hasn't been discussed) flipped over 55 for the rivered straight, and I suspect Button folded his busted flush, given the fact that he had consistently called down rivers with any pair. I personally think the turn was about the only street that I played well, but to each his own.
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