A hand worth a discussion

[FreakDaddy]

[ QUOTE ]
I reraise preflop to 5-7. (If I think I will get 1 or 0 callers.)

The way you played it preflop I bet more on the flop and fold to the raise.

The push seems fine to me if you think there's a fair chance he'll fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

The pre-flop re-raise isn't a bad idea, and if I were going to play this hand against most opponents in a raised pot OOP that's what I would do, but I elected not to for good reason. Villian had a tendency to go over the top and I wanted to play the cards cheap, hit the flop or bail. It was a marginal hit and a gutsy post flop play.

I wanted to make more of a probing bet and I thought the re-raise call showed decent enough strength to worry villian. He knows I'm not some fish, so he had to think a long while (almost timed out) on the turn push call.

[swolfe]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, let me help. I hate the pre-flop call, I would have raised and here's why... or that turn push is horrible, this this and that. It's called discussion. You may learn something.

[/ QUOTE ]

okay

- i'd fold preflop
- i wouldn't bet out on the flop with 2nd pair and the preflop action
- i certainly wouldn't call the raise, maniac or not
- i wouldn't have pushed with 3rd pair and a gutshot

nice hand

EDIT: this is the kind of move you make on a tight player, not a maniac. you're supposed to use your opponent's weakness against him. if they call too much, then value bet everything; if they bet too much, let them take the lead and hang themselves.

[TheWorstPlayer]

There is absolutely, positively, 100%, ZERO chance this guy is folding a better hand on the turn. Therefore, the turn push is horrendous. He is saying VERY clearly on the flop that his plan is to get all-in here. If you have a better hand than he does, he OBVIOUSLY wants to push you off it. A free card on the turn is the LAST thing you should be worried about. Therefore, check/call is FAR superior to your push. Betting is absolutely dreadful, dude.

[wtfsvi]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Svar på:</font><hr />
- i'd fold preflop

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you notice the guy raises 35% of hands preflop? You can't fold AJ I think. I suppose calling is not much better maybe, but why don't you reraise?

EDIT: Oh damn, CO wasn't the preflop raiser. Then I agree. This has to be folded preflop, unless MP1 has equally loose raising standards of course.

[wtfsvi]

Sorry, I misread this. I thought CO was the original raiser.

If MP1 has a more normal raising range, I think this is an easy fold preflop and a check on the flop. Whether or not to call a flop bet from CO and whether to push or check-call the turn if you get there is more difficult.

[poboy]

I'm not going to comment on how good or bad I think this play was, I think others have already said it all. But I do have a question. If you hadn't drawn out would you have still posted the hand wanting to know if it was a good play or not?

[FreakDaddy]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not going to comment on how good or bad I think this play was, I think others have already said it all. But I do have a question. If you hadn't drawn out would you have still posted the hand wanting to know if it was a good play or not?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the result is irrelevent either way. There are a LOT of questionable plays in this hand, so I thought it would be worth a discussion. I pretty much know most people aren't going to like or understand this hand.

[FreakDaddy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ok, let me help. I hate the pre-flop call, I would have raised and here's why... or that turn push is horrible, this this and that. It's called discussion. You may learn something.

[/ QUOTE ]

okay

1 - i'd fold preflop
2 - i wouldn't bet out on the flop with 2nd pair and the preflop action
3 - i certainly wouldn't call the raise, maniac or not
4 - i wouldn't have pushed with 3rd pair and a gutshot

nice hand

EDIT: this is the kind of move you make on a tight player, not a maniac. you're supposed to use your opponent's weakness against him. if they call too much, then value bet everything; if they bet too much, let them take the lead and hang themselves.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey, glad you decided to play. Let me say a few things about your comments because I think they're all valid of course.
1) Typically I agree. I was only worried about pre-flop raiser on this hand and I dropped in on this hand hoping to hit the flop big and play against CO. Risky call? Of course. Look, villian had Js,5s how bad really was my read?
2) I think that would be a mistake to check this hand. I bet 1/3 of the pot to see where I stand. What do you know, pre-flop raiser dropped, what are the odds of that happening at 25NL with a 4xBB raise. Very good. If I'm called by pre-flop raiser, I'm done with the hand.
3) If you saw a player overbetting the pot 4-10x continusiously, would you contemplate changing your mind, or are you going to sit back and let him steal every pot? Just curious.
4) I had 3rd pair, an overcard, a flush draw and a gutshot straight draw. Plus there was a slight chance that I was already ahead cosidering villians previous plays. Count all the outs. Now take into account the times villian is going to fold, maniac or not with a possible flush and straight on board. Now do the math. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

I agree about your push comment. Good poker comes from playing the opposite of your opponent. Good comment.

[Malachii]

Without reading the other posts, it sounds like Villain put you on tilt and you played with your balls instead of your head. Even stupid LAGs wake up with a hand, I think I wait for a better spot to take his money. LAGs are very good at making solid players overplay their hands.

[poboy]

I think everyone understands this hand, but not many are going to like it. The reason being is that villian is going to show down Kx often enough to make this a long-term loser, and you're not going to knock him off it. In order for a semi-bluff to be considered there has to be some chance that villian will fold, and this villian obviously will not do so. Also try to put your opponents on a range of hands(very difficult against LAG/Maniacs), he could very easily be holding A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]x or a str8 draw. Which would obviously taint some of your outs. So given that you could already be behind,villian will not fold, and alot of your outs could be dirty , this looks very -ev. JMO