AQo and my head is spinning. - Page 2

Justin A · #11 04-22-2005, 01:47 AM

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I think Justin and Shill are right.

PFR LRR had 77 on this one for the turned set, but I think it's worth investing two bets on the turn. Given the board I wasn't completely sure about it, since most hands a LAG would overlimp-reraise are going to be ahead of mine.

Rob

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I disagree, a LAG's range of hands for an over-over-limp-reraise are very very wide. You're ahead of a lot of his hands here.

Entity · #12 04-22-2005, 01:48 AM

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I think Justin and Shill are right.

PFR LRR had 77 on this one for the turned set, but I think it's worth investing two bets on the turn. Given the board I wasn't completely sure about it, since most hands a LAG would overlimp-reraise are going to be ahead of mine.

Rob

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I disagree, a LAG's range of hands for an over-over-limp-reraise are very very wide. You're ahead of a lot of his hands here.

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Mind giving me a range so I can stove it? Generally I see it from pocket pairs, suited and unsuited connectors, and garbage Aces.

Rob

Lmn55d · #13 04-22-2005, 01:55 AM

IF you thought that was the range, then why not cap preflop?

Justin A · #14 04-22-2005, 02:02 AM

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I think Justin and Shill are right.

PFR LRR had 77 on this one for the turned set, but I think it's worth investing two bets on the turn. Given the board I wasn't completely sure about it, since most hands a LAG would overlimp-reraise are going to be ahead of mine.

Rob

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I disagree, a LAG's range of hands for an over-over-limp-reraise are very very wide. You're ahead of a lot of his hands here.

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Mind giving me a range so I can stove it? Generally I see it from pocket pairs, suited and unsuited connectors, and garbage Aces.

Rob

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PP sometimes, but more usually I see these guys do this with suited hands, usually connected, and usually trashy. I don't think this is a play they're going to make with garbage aces if they're not suited. When this happens I'm not surprised to see hands like 35s and KJs.

Also remember you don't have to be ahead that often to make raising the correct play.

Justin A · #15 04-22-2005, 02:02 AM

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IF you thought that was the range, then why not cap preflop?

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I think there's a lot of merit to capping preflop there, and I'm beginning to think it's the best play.

Entity · #16 04-22-2005, 02:03 AM

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IF you thought that was the range, then why not cap preflop?

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It isn't head's up, and I'm out of position with an offsuit broadway in a 5-way, already bloated pot. I'd cap with AQs here but not AQo. I actually probably wouldn't cap with AKo either. I do think it's close, but capping preflop will almost certainly mean that I'm seeing a showdown here, regardless of what flops/turns, a very large portion of the time, and I'm not sure that I want to tie myself to the pot any more than I want to tie everyone else to it.

Rob

Lmn55d · #17 04-22-2005, 02:07 AM

the fact that it is 5way is more reason to cap it IMO. Even if he has KK you should be fine since its a 5way pot. You will have more than enough equity. Not capping here with AKo is a huge mistake. Also, people might fold for 2 more which is good.

Entity · #18 04-22-2005, 02:13 AM

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the fact that it is 5way is more reason to cap it IMO. Even if he has KK you should be fine since its a 5way pot. You will have more than enough equity. Not capping here with AKo is a huge mistake.

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It's far from a huge mistake. The biggest problem I have with capping hands like AQo and AKo here, while they do have an equity edge, is that you tie yourself and others to the pot.

The money you can make up postflop in situations where you didn't cap is often enough to make not capping, at the very worst, a small error, and this is with AKo. It's similar to saying that "not capping JJ" is a huge error here.

Rob

Lmn55d · #19 04-22-2005, 02:15 AM

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The money you can make up postflop in situations where you didn't cap is often enough to make not capping, at the very worst, a small error, and this is with AKo

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I disagree. Do a pokerstove simulation with a possible range of hands for the limpers and this aggressive overlimpreraiser who could have ANYTHING and see what equity you have.

Entity · #20 04-22-2005, 02:20 AM

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The money you can make up postflop in situations where you didn't cap is often enough to make not capping, at the very worst, a small error, and this is with AKo

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I disagree. Do a pokerstove simulation with a possible range of hands for the limpers and this aggressive overlimpreraiser who could have ANYTHING and see what equity you have.

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Showdown Equity w/AKo != Expected Value. Andrew has said this many times before with regards to the utility of pokerstove in such simulations.

I'm not saying that you don't lose money. You do. However, depending on your table and situation, you can often make up this money later in a way that would not have been possible had you capped preflop.

Rob