This one might be interesting

[Edge34]

I like this line with the opponents as described, although I agree with Dougie that a flop bet would be worth it. UTG appears to have given up on paint that missed. UTG+1 bothers me a little bit, but getting almost 13:1 on your call, and about 14:1 if UTG calls the bet, I think you have to call the river.

[DcifrThs]

loved it vs. those guys.

-Barron

[Schneids]

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but getting almost 13:1 on your call, and about 14:1 if UTG calls the bet, I think you have to call the river.

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If UTG overcalls I win the pot 0% of the time.

[Schneids]

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Question: Will the mediocre raise overcards on the flop?

I think this may be even more reason to lead out.

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I thought about it.

Here's where my thinking might go astray but I'm not sure... Basically, I didn't really feel comfortable leading into three people with an underpair on a coordinated-ish flop. I was looking to find reasons to get out of the hand before finding reasons to continue with it; ie, if UTG bet and both UTG+1 and UTG+2 (the solid player) called, I might start thinking of letting it go, or if one of the players raised UTG's bet, I'm definitely letting it go. I just have this gut feeling that a lot of the time that flop is hitting enough of one of the two cold callers (in particular I'm interested in whether the solid player raises or folds) that I'd like to find out right away w/o investing any more money.

I don't know maybe this is too weak tight and I should be looking to create opportunities rather than waiting to see if any opportunity might exist.

[YoureToast]

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Flop (8.5 SBs): [5s 6h 9h]
I check, UTG bets, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, I call.

~ At this point given the board's texture I think folding is a big mistake so I'd like to see what the turn brings and how the action goes.

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Can you elaborate on this point? To me this is a clear fold.

1. I'm outta position.
2. 3 overcards
3. Semicoordinated flop
4. Fairly unlikely I'm in the lead now with 3 other players in there.
5. I have 2 outs, both of which may give someone a straight or a straight draw, one of which puts a flush board out there.
6. Theres nice $$ in the pot but not significant.
7. UTG raised from UTG and may have an overpair. UTG2 could easily have an overpair.

I just don't get it; it really seems like you're reaching.

[Schneids]

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1. I'm outta position.

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I'm in position with relation to the fish, which matters. Basically, although I'm first to act, UTG is now pretty much first to act since he's going to remain in autobet mode until someone gives him a reason to not be.
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2. 3 overcards

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The overcards being 9-high in this spot is drastically different than it being like QT7 or even Q75.

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3. Semicoordinated flop

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Yes this fact sucks.
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4. Fairly unlikely I'm in the lead now with 3 other players in there.

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I disagree on this part. We have an UTG who's loose enough to raise almost any two broadways UTG and who's betting the flop with all those. It's far more likely he's betting flopped overcards than a pocket pair that beats me. As for UTG+1, I'm gambling on the fact that he's calling with nothing (which he often does) since he did not raise.

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5. I have 2 outs, both of which may give someone a straight or a straight draw, one of which puts a flush board out there.

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That's only if I'm behind, which I contend I might not be on the flop.

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6. Theres nice $$ in the pot but not significant.

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EV is EV and if it's +EV than it's worth fighting for. Plus I think I can maximize my wins and get away soon enough with my losses.
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7. UTG raised from UTG and may have an overpair. UTG could easily have an overpair.

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As stated above it's a lot, lot more likely he's got overcards than an overpair given his range of raising hands. Maybe I should have been more descript about that fact in my initial post.

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I just don't get it; it really seems like you're reaching.

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Hope that clarifies or gives people ammunition to fire back at me with.

[DrGutshot]

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but getting almost 13:1 on your call, and about 14:1 if UTG calls the bet, I think you have to call the river.

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If UTG overcalls I win the pot 0% of the time.

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If you are fairly sure the fish will bet this river with less than a pair, and UTG will fold a good pair when faced with 2 bets cold, why not check raise the river?


-DrG

[Schneids]

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but getting almost 13:1 on your call, and about 14:1 if UTG calls the bet, I think you have to call the river.

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If UTG overcalls I win the pot 0% of the time.

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If you are fairly sure the fish will bet this river with less than a pair, and UTG will fold a good pair when faced with 2 bets cold, why not check raise the river?


-DrG

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Another tough consideration for me during the hand. There is some merit to check raising the river, but I don't know how much.

[YoureToast]

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I'm in position with relation to the fish, which matters. Basically, although I'm first to act, UTG is now pretty much first to act since he's going to remain in autobet mode until someone gives him a reason to not be.

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An interesting concept.

What bothers me more about this hand is the assumption that you're ahead here and that if you are ahead you will still be ahead after 2 more cards come out and the fish is likely to still be there. I don't think you're doing this here necessarily, but I think we all get trapped from time to time thinking we can't lose to a fish. We all try our best to isolate the fish (3 betting with AJo after the the fish raised preflop etc), but tend to think that gives us a right to draw the better hand. In this case, its nice to have position on the fish, but look at all the cards that can hurt you on the turn and river. Any heart may give either opponent a flush and will undoubtedly give them a flush draw, destroying any fold equity you may have. Any AKQT likely gives one of them an overpair, etc. I just can't see it here. Heads up against the mediocre UTG, I think you have a different situation where calling to the finish is justifable.

[steveyz]

Spraying, fold the flop. Even on the chance that you are ahead on the flop, it's more than likely someone will outdraw you and it's even more likely one of the cold callers has a higher pair (77/88).