4 straight on board, so what? - Page 2

ggbman · #11 04-09-2005, 05:14 PM

In the long run, against most players, i think this river raise is bad. I'm glad it worked for you this time. It takes a real donk to bet a hand worse than a straight there gtiven the action.

Lestat · #12 04-09-2005, 05:14 PM

Just caught up with this thread, wish you had waited a little longer for results. 

Sorry. Post was getting very few responses so I figured it was time to end it.

 His play screams AJo from the very beginning. 

This is what I thought as well.

 What else can he have there, and is there anyway a K is part of his hand? 

I was slightly worried he semi-bluffed the flop with KQ. Other than that, I couldn't think of anything else. What was most important was that with KQ he'd re-raise the river and I could safely fold. I didn't have to waste another bet paying him off, but he'd be prone to pay me off with two pair. This was my main question. It would take some huge kahunas to 3-bet the river without a king. And if he did do that, I think he deserves to win it from me.

 I have not run into many opponents that fold the two pair here as everyone is afraid of being bluffed off on the river. 

I'm still relatively new to online and this really amazes me. Even guys who appear very solid cannot seem to bring themselves to fold a hand. I'm finally starting to take advantage of this.

I had a guy who's numbers looked good to me, pay me off with
99 after a flop of AKJ.

And another guy who I thought was pretty solid: I had QQ and we went 4 bets pre-flop, another 4 bets on a Q-high flop. An ace turned and he led, I raised and he called. The river completed a flush. He checked/called with KK.

I got a lucky in both hands for sure, but there was almost no hand I could have that their hands beat!? It amazed me to get that kind of action from what I thought were good players. Or am I just not doing a good job of interpreting their numbers from PT/Gametime? Do you think this is the case? I'm starting to.

Lestat · #13 04-09-2005, 05:20 PM

It takes a real donk to bet a hand worse than a straight there gtiven the action. 

I actually find this to be a very common play online. i.e., people don't want to miss a bet with a better hand, so they bet a scare card on the river figuring they won't get raised. When they do get raised, they can't bring themselves to fold. Are you playing the 15-30 on Party? This is very common actually.

Diplomat · #14 04-09-2005, 05:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
It takes a real donk to bet a hand worse than a straight there gtiven the action. 

I actually find this to be a very common play online. i.e., people don't want to miss a bet with a better hand, so they bet a scare card on the river figuring they won't get raised. When they do get raised, they can't bring themselves to fold. Are you playing the 15-30 on Party? This is very common actually.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with everything in your post here. Your thinking is quite accurate.

BTW, the river raise is pretty standard, imo.

-Diplomat

mikelow · #15 04-09-2005, 06:06 PM

As long he doesn't have a king (and I don't think he has), I like it.

ggbman · #16 04-09-2005, 06:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
It takes a real donk to bet a hand worse than a straight there gtiven the action. 

I actually find this to be a very common play online. i.e., people don't want to miss a bet with a better hand, so they bet a scare card on the river figuring they won't get raised. When they do get raised, they can't bring themselves to fold. Are you playing the 15-30 on Party? This is very common actually.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes i play the 15-30 party game and i don't disagree that some people try to value-bets hands they shouldn't and then call off river raises, but after going 3 bets on the turn, i am amazed by his player. Im confident that generally this river raise is not good, you just ran into a COMPLETE moron. There are no hands that you would 3 bet that he beats now. (Not AA,AK,AQ,QQ,KK,QK,JJ,TT) His play is terrible and fortunatley it worked out well for you, but i would mantain after this line of action, most players don't bet anything but a straight here. Also, you think you have the ability to fold to a 3 bet 100% of the time?

DpR · #17 04-09-2005, 06:31 PM

Agreed, Almost all players call down in that game since there are a decent number of nuts who raise randomly with no hand to try to grab the pot. I frequently get raised on the turn of river when I have AK and hit A or K pair and bet all the way. When they pop me on a big street I sigh and call down only to find out on the river they had no pair and no draw. When you see this enough its gets difficult to lay down a hand even by players with good stats. There just are very few thinking opponents who can also make the lay down.

I must admit I have made some calls where I have to be beat but call because there is a little bird on my shoulder screaming maybe its just a totally random raise. This is an area I try to improve upon, but I think the danger of going to far the other way, which will absolultey kill you in the party 15/30 makes it challenging.

DpR · #18 04-09-2005, 06:38 PM

what hand can villian have that makes hima straight? KQ is the only one. He prob wouldn't play KQo utg, and he would prob raise KQs. Even if he did have one of these he would obviously cap the turn. I just don't see any way he has a K. I think this is a situation where you are allowing the fact that it is a one card to the striaghboard make you stop thinking about what the opponent might have (especially since this guy is super tight 11%!!!!) Lestat didn't stop thinking about it and he made a good play whick made him an extra BB.