Opportunity Comes Knocking

[Rococo]

I think that you are missing the point. The fact that you are only at 130BB makes a huge difference, because Villain is getting 2:1 to call your push on the turn. In other words, he only has to pick you off 1 in three times to make it worth a call. If you were at 400BB, it would make a huge difference.

One other thing, the guy that just raised me on the turn is the same guy that check called the flop on a very draw heavy board. Even if I give you credit for not fearing the draw because you put me on an overpair (and I don't give everyone credit for it), I still don't see you check calling a set here on the flop because of the possibility that a K or A could kill your action in the event that I held TT, JJ or QQ.

Given that it was six-handed, I guess that I can't entirely discount the possibility of you having a 3, but if I am getting 2 to 1 to make the call, I probably am going to pick you off. At 400BB, I might well play it differently, but then it would truly be a deep stack hand.

Last question -- what does your hourly rate have to do with whether you played this hand correctly? El D probably has a better hourly rate than all of us and he was complaining the other day about screwing up several hands. No one, least of all me, plays every hand optimally.

[quix0tic]

Are you saying you will call with kings in his spot or not? I am asserting its a fairly easy fold. Do you disagree?

[NiceCatch]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think its essential to discussing the hand, but it should be said I wouldn't make this play without a tight table image.

[/ QUOTE ]
Really? You think this play works without a tight table image? Nice play, against a strong opponent. Suicide against a weaker one.

[Rococo]

Honestly, it would depend on the player. I think that you have described your table image (i.e., opening with a wide range preflop and playing like a rock thereafter) with an eye towards making your play seem correct. Nevertheless, if I truly perceived you as playing this style, I might give you a credit for a 3 the first time you tried this move. I would make a stand before long though. I don't want you to get the idea that you can push me off a big hand on any scary board.

What I personally would do is irrelevant, of course, because you weren't playing against me. I promise that a lot of players will look you up in that situation.

[NiceCatch]

I think short-handed deep stack play is about picking your spots, and going with the ebb and flow of the game. Clearly, Hero in this case picked the right spot, and made a good move.

The question is, did he do it for the right reasons? And ultimately, does he usually do it for the right reasons?

[Rococo]

I don't understand why everyone keeps talking about this hand as if both players were really deep. They weren't.

That being said, I will concede that this is the correct play against certain opponents. If the original poster had that kind of read on his opponent, then I will reiterate what I said in my original post -- more power to him and good play.

My only point was that I am dubious about using this as a default line against an unknown.

[Matt Flynn]

good thinking behind your river move.

keep in mind you are offering your head for chopping. you really do not want to do that, e.g., against myself or cero_z, because we could well have the 3 or a set and also may just call you down anyway depending on your play characteristics up til then. also, against a weak player you are really getting in over your head. you are offering significant odds.

there is a wide swath of middle-level players against whom it is a good play.

matt

[creedofhubris]

[ QUOTE ]

there is a wide swath of middle-level players against whom it is a good play.

matt

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm one of them.

If you haven't yet shown down a big bluff at the table then opponent is folding. If you have, then you're drawing for six outs.

[Kaz The Original]

You got really lucky your opponent wasn't bad enough to call any bets with an overpair, and wasn't good enough to put you on a hand at all. This is a foolish bluff, unless you are playing really loose preflop and your opponent knows it.

[soah]

First you tell us your play felt completely routine. Now you say you don't make plays like this often.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.