Does the intentional pause + Value bet add EV?

[Brian]

In my experience, the pause makes fish think you have a bad hand, and they often respond by raising or check-raising. I pause all the time, but unforunately not because I have a good hand; rather, I often pause because I'm acting on other tables. And, as in general you have more bad hands than good hands, the pause gets me into a lot of trouble, because it seems whenever I have paused for more than a few seconds (i.e. when Party begins the visual countdown), I get raised.

I began noticing this the other night, when I added a few more tables to my routine (thanks largely to TweakUI - I suggest all you multi-tablers who have a lot of overlap get this program!) which caused me to pause for longer intervals. Perhaps my sample size is INSUFFICIENT!, but I've seen a lot more bluffs pulled against me in the past few weeks than I ever have before.

It just feels like whenever I wait for a LONG time, and I bet, my opponent rarely folds, and often usually calls or raises. Of course, on PartyPoker, the "rarely folds" is true no matter how fast you act, but I tend to call down often vs. a raise whenever I have paused for a significant period. Shrug.

-Brian

[ckessel]

My pauses aren't typically by design, but because I actually need to think a second. I might check his showdown stats, or think for a second if he cold-called 2 bets. Basically trying to decide if it's a value bet or if I should take the free showdown.

Same with reraises. On late streets I double check the board and make sure I haven't missed an unsual straight (like the BB with 75 or something and hits a 864 straight).

[AngryCola]

This isn't slowrolling.

Almost everyone else can elaborate.

[sfer]

I've noticed that, in general, I have zero difficulty getting paid off regardless of the speed of my bets.

[MaxPower]

This will work against weak players who are going to call you anyway, so it really isn't necessary.

Strong players are not going to fall for it.

Against strong players I like to pause when I'm going to put in a semi-bluff raise.

[Brian]

Hi sfer,

I agree with this totally. What I was saying is that oftentimes the pauses work against me, because it makes my opponent think I am weak (and as we make more bad hands than good hands, statistically I am more likely to be weak) and thus causes me to get raised off of marginal holdings quite often.

-Brian

[Huhmare]

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I actually get much more pissed by the guys who hit the "bet" button so damn fast it's unreal - like it's gonna win them more money or something.

I just pause for the full 19 seconds to piss them off [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

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More hands per hour * Positive winrate = more money

so it really does.

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yeah, but I'd lay money that most of these fucktards dont have a positive winrate, so just like in the hand, they are in a hurry to give away their money [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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I constantly use this to induce fish call to call my "bluff"

[Sixth_Rule]

hmmm let me think about this
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Yes it makes you money..... at least a 2/4 3/6
i do it in 2 situations all against bad players only

1) (this one makes less money then the rest) i have had the guy all the way its checked to me again and i bet the river)

2) when an ace or other scare comes and i have a pair of aces beat MANY fish will have a single ace and if they check to me and i pause, i get a lot more raises then if i bet quickly.

[avisco01]

I'm not sure exactly how much that play can help in terms of percentages or rate of success. However, I supppose the only logical answer is, anything you can do to place any doubt in your opponent's mind about your holding is worth doing. Against weaker opponents I think it could be profitable, against tougher ones, perhaps not. In any event, unless someone is seriously foolish enough to play back at you, the most you hope to gain by this play is one more big bet per monster hand. Not that significant really because unless someone makes a very strong second best hand, like a K high flush against your nut flush for instance, the chances of an opponent playing back, let alone calling are probably very slim unless that particular opponent is an extremely weak and / or and gullible player. I don't consider myself an expert, but when someone pauses, double checks their hand, or acts weak in any way and then bets, a warning bell goes off in my head. Most times by the river, against tough opponents, they'll sometimes call if the pot is very large. Against weak, novice opponents you'll get the frequent "curiosity call" (one of my specialities). Like I already mentioned, this play doesn't stand to be very profitable from my vantage point, but if you are against an unusually foolish player, why not give it a shot? In the long run, I doubt the play will show a significant difference one way or another in your win rate.

[That guy]

this move works. the opponent is wondering if his hand is good or not. your pause starts to convince him that he may indeed have the best hand. you raise, he calls.

I also like the 'long pause check-raise' followed by the 'lightning quick lead-the-turn' bet where your chips enter the pot exactly simultaneous with the turn card appearing. the opponent sees all these bets coming at him and can't take all the heat... folds and just like clockwork, then types into the chat box: "I want my mommy"...