A ridiculously difficult hand Part I - Page 2

PktAcesSoWht · #11 03-13-2005, 12:58 PM

I do not believe that calling the preflop raise was horrible, you were getting good value on your money I think to see the flop.

I think you definitely need to bet out. I think it is too risky that the BB will check and everyone else will check as well and then you just lost an opportunity to gain information and to have an opponent make a mistake. If your trips are the best hand, and they probably are, then why give the flush draw a free card to beat you. Cardinal sin.

I would bet 200, and see what happens. If I was called by someone then I might check the turn and see what happens. If it is checked back to me on the turn. I would bet out on the river one-third to one-half the pot and see what happens.

I think it is a horrible decision to think about folding this hand after you made trips. I mean why would you play it at all if that were the case.

I would think that BB has a pair or AK, AQ something like that.

PktAcesSoWht · #12 03-13-2005, 01:00 PM

100 percent at 600 is better than 80 percent for 800. IMHO

Iconoclastic · #13 03-13-2005, 04:21 PM

This is how it turned out:

I checked the Flop, and like what Sossman said I planned to pump it if there was a significant bet but to call if there was a small bet. BB bet 90 chips again, and got 1 caller back to me, I decided to call. Possible reasons for my call: a pot reraise will likely scare everyone off. If I reraise small they'll probably shut it down on the Turn anyways so I'll be forced to bet out, which is inferior to the pot reraise on the Flop anyways because it gives them a free card. So I was planning to extract more on the Turn.

I'm playing these trips as the nuts on this flop. My experience in low buy-in MTTs indicate that many will go all in with just an overpair.

So the Turn comes a 8d to fill up any possible flushes. So I check again, BB underbets the pot again, the LP player reraises, I fold, the BB pushes, and the LP player folds.

Will_Son · #14 03-13-2005, 04:38 PM

First post (pop the cherry):

I would've bet out 300 on the flop or, had I taken your approach and checked, raised to 300 when the action came around to me again. I'm not a fan of giving free cards when there's a flush draw possibility out there and I think the pot's a decent size for it to be worth it for you to take it down right now.

Beavis68 · #15 03-13-2005, 04:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Early in low buy-in MTT. Blinds 15-30. Everyone has nearly the same amount, 1500. I hold JhTc in SB. 2 limpers, I complete. BB raises to 90, everyone calls. I called for the implied odds and getting to close the action preflop.

So now there's 360 in the pot. Flop comes JcJd2d, giving me T high trips but with two diamonds on the flop. I'm against 3 opponents who each have 1410 chips.

How do I play this first to act on flop turn and river?

I'll continue with followup posts detailing what has complicated this hand so much and has confounded all attempts at mathematically precise EV calculations.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the players are weak post-flop, the call isnt bad, I would rather it were suited.

Bet out about 3/4s of the pot, I would be willing go to the felt with this. If they have been agressive post flop, check-raise them the size of the pot.

I don't agree that you have reverse implied odds. But I like calling with a hand less obvious than JTo

fnord_too · #16 03-13-2005, 06:20 PM

Check raise the flop. If you don't get all in on the flop push the turn regardless of what it is (assuming you get a c/r in on the flop, if it gets checked around, ugh.) I only skimmed a few of the responses, I don't mint the pre flop action at all. The BB really hasn't a clue as far as I can tell, raising 60 is just sweetening the pot, but won't get anyone out. Hard to think of what hand he would want to build a big multi-way pot with. You almost definitely have the best hand, and will have redraws even if a flush comes. If you are lucky, BB has AA or KK and won't be able to get away from it.

PktAcesSoWht · #17 03-13-2005, 08:47 PM

You played this in a way that would almost ensure that you would lose the pot. I think your flop and turn play was atrocious. Giving the free flush card to beat you is just a terrible mistake. You should have bet out big on flop and made sure any flush draws would be getting terrible odds. You should have check raised, since it was bet.

You set yourself up to get bought off the pot when the third flush card came.

When you put up the 100% to win 600 and 80% to win 800, you should have put up 0% to win when the flush card hits, since you were going to fold if it came and someone bet.

that 100% looked pretty good when you were throwing away your SET.

Donating · #18 03-13-2005, 08:48 PM

Just curious for what your plan was if no diamond came off given the flop action. Were you planning on leading out (and if so for how much) or check raising? It seems like pretty weak flop action so potentially checked around if you don't lead.

HoldingFolding · #19 03-13-2005, 08:48 PM

I think this hand illustrates the dichotomy between high and low level buy ins. I put BB squarely on AA, KK or AK. His mini bet is simply stating "I have Aces, but I'm scared of those Jacks". Post hand it's easy to put LP on a medium pair, but he could just have easily been on a flush draw, and that call would have made me nervous enough of the flush draw to make a big bet.

Seeing the way the hand played out, I think if you'd have made that bet you'd have ended up all in with BB, with LP folding. I also think you'd have got all BBs chips.

Iconoclastic · #20 03-14-2005, 07:55 PM

My instincts at the time(cuz it's really impossible to come up with a real plan for a new situation in 20 seconds) were to check-raise pot the Flop if someone bet big, or check-call the Flop if someone bet small to induce another bet on the Turn and check-raise pot on the Turn. I just felt that the BB would probably make another small bet on the Turn and the amount of chips I could squeeze out on the Turn was > than the % a diamond would come on the Turn.