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#12
03-10-2005, 08:53 PM
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Re: Whats with all the limp reraising ?
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I've noticed a big increase in this lately. I reckon that a TV poker programme must have showed some twit doing it and all the n00bs thought it would be a great idea. FWIW, limping in early position with these monsters is completely stupid, particularly at the lower limits. You're just asking to get your hand cracked. Case in point, yesterday it was 5 limpers to me on the button so I limp with 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. The flop comes K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] UTG bets, a few calls, I raise, UTG reraises, blah blah blah. I make my flush on the Turn and Mr I'm so tricky shows KK and loses a big pot. If he had raised preflop, I would never have been in that pot. As long as they keep doing it I'm happy. But don't do it yourself. [/ QUOTE ] Yes, you won a big pot; however, do you really think him getting you to put in 3 bets with 75s is a bad play? You're welcome to put in 3 bets preflop against me when I have KK anytime you would like. 
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#13
03-11-2005, 01:49 PM
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Re: Whats with all the limp reraising ?
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Big pockets do not go up in value with more players. They go down in value. They are meant to be played against few opponents, not many. Drawing hands are meant to be played in multi way pots. [/ QUOTE ] This is not correct. The probability of winning with big pocket pairs does decrease with more players, however, the increase in the size of the pot more than offsets this, so the EV goes up. This is especially true for aces. Aces will win 30% against ten opponents going to the river. This is a huge overlay (anything more than 10% will make money). Yes, some of your opponents will have correct odds to chase their crappy draws. So what. Most of the money that gives them the odds is coming from your other opponents, from money that they incorrectly put in the pot preflop, not from you. I think you need to read something other than Lee Jones. WLLHE is not a bad book for beginners, and you can probably be a small winner in loose games following his advice, but there is a lot in it that's just plain wrong. You really need to get a grasp of the concept of pot equity. It will help correct some of your erroneous ideas.
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#17
03-11-2005, 03:20 PM
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My limp/reraising Requirements
I limp/reraise quite a bit in the PP 15/30. One reason for this is that an open raise from UTG(+1+2) tends to get a lot of respect, and a significant amount of the time you'll end up just winning the blinds, which with aces and kings isn't a great result. A limp however, does encourage a lot more action, and in this game the odds are very good that you'll get a raise behind you.
The only hands I'll automatically play this way are aces and kings, I still raise with QQ-JJ, AK which do much better against a limited feel. However, I also limp up front with a lot of the big broadway suited connectors, and then sometimes reraise to: 1. Knock out players, create dead money and isolate the raiser 2. Build a large pot 3. Vary my play In smaller/weaker games, early position raises get nowhere the same respect, so I revert to always raising aces and kings. I also tend not to go for the limp/reraise if anyone has posted an extra blind. It's important to keep it to just aces and kings, as for these hands it's not a disaster if there's no raise, wheras it definetly is for queens.
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#18
03-11-2005, 03:30 PM
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Re: Whats with all the limp reraising ?
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So, you're telling me that i'm supposed to give 5 or 6 opponents pot odds to call down all the way and hope none of them runs down a stupid 2 pair, straight, or flush ? [/ QUOTE ] You are charging them three bets rather than two to look at the flop. It should be clear that that gives them worse odds. Imagine the extreme case where you have KK and your opponents are willing to go all in preflop. You're saying that you would rather let them see the flop for the minimum because if they are all-in they will be getting correct odds once the flop comes to try to river a straight? C'mon.
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#19
03-11-2005, 04:22 PM
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Re: Whats with all the limp reraising ?
[ QUOTE ]
Big pockets do not go up in value with more players. They go down in value. They are meant to be played against few opponents, not many. Drawing hands are meant to be played in multi way pots. [/ QUOTE ] According to the % of pots won against # of opponents - 1 Opponent - 85% 3 Opponents - 64% 5 Opponents - 49% So against 5 opponents you're getting 5:1 value on a 1:1 call (am I saying this right?) AA certainly keeps its value against many opponents.
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#20
03-11-2005, 04:58 PM
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Re: Whats with all the limp reraising ?
[ QUOTE ]
He didnt put in 3 bets with 75s, he limped in and no one raised, the guy with KK was trying to limp re raise but no one raised. [/ QUOTE ] This is, in fact, the reason you should use the limp-reraise sparingly. You always run the risk of letting people see the flop cheaply with worse hands. Getting 3 bets in with lots of callers is good. Letting crappy hands see the flop for 1 bet isn't. Of course, you sometimes gain some deception value because people usually don't put you on a big pocket pair wheh you limp, but it usually doesn't make up for the money you would have gotten in preflop if you had raised (or succesfully limp-reraised). OTOH, aces and kings are worth significantl more than the blinds, so limping in is better than just stealing the blinds.
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