I need a tongue lashing from a good MTT player

[AtticusFinch]

As a fellow STT specialist moving into MTTs, I've had similar quandries. I've had some early success at MTTs, though, and my ROI in $55 SNGs is not as good as yours. (~18%).

I suspect that what was a leak in my SNG strategy is an asset in MTTs. Namely, in SNGs, I tended to try to steal too many pots. I find that my pot steals succeed much more often in MTTs, especially smallish pots in in middle tourney stages. (I'm still super-tight early.)

I'm talking about blinds at 50, with ~150-300 in the pot. At this point in the tourney, many of the wackos are already gone, while weak-tight players are hanging on with shrinking stacks. Here is where I start attacking, not just PF, but on the flop. Moves like the check-raise bluff are extremely effective vs a weak-tight player, especially the sort with the awful tendency of making weak bets after a check on a flop full of blanks with nothing but overs. (watch for these guys, they are money in the bank.)

I think your intuition that early play is essentially the same for STTs and MTTs is correct. I also think that the endgame is much the same as a SNG, although some adjustments need to be made for dealing with a short stack at a full table with huge blinds and antes (but they are mostly obvious, i.e. tighten up with steals somewhat in early position, and be wary of "obvious" steals from the button itself with garbage hands).

It's the middle stages that are tricky. And as I said, you might need to boost your post-flop aggression a bit, while still maintaining solid PF standards.

Let me know if you learn anything more about the adjustment. Us STT folks have to stick together [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Cheers,
-AF

[AtticusFinch]

You've probably inferred that I'm more of a survivor than an accumulator. Apart from rebuys, my impression is that both strategies can work fine. For a STT person, though, I think it's best to start off with the survivor strategy. It's closest to how we play already, and there can be no doubt that it is a valid strategy.

[KalmazooRob1]

When I say survive, it means not going broke with 78s or Ax suited. You can't make silly mistakes. You can use your late STT strategy, when the table gets tight. But, if your table is loose and it's still a full ring. You better be coming with big guns or you will get broke.
I see way to many players move in preflop with AQ-AJ-A10s, they may catch lucky, but the luck will eventually disappear. Another thing on surviving, if you are card poor and are not being dealt, big hands. You must "survive". You have to steal blinds. Patience, Patience, Patience.
Only my opinon, good luck to you.

[PktAcesSoWht]

This was a great post. I was looking for the same type of info as I do really well in STT, but have only made 2 final tables and ITM 3 total.

I tend to survive longer than the average player usually always surving to make the upper 10 percent, but I definitely want more.

I tend to have a hard time getting a big stack. I am a pretty conservative, play my position player. Although I have tried to become much more aggressive post flop with continuation and probing bets and on the turn, and definitely betting the RIver when I think I have the better of it or when nobody has shown any strength.

My question is definitely what category of hands should I loosen up to for MTT? I rarely play Ax in any position except blinds maybe and maybe a blind steal attempt.

I would be interested in knowing how aggressive people are early, say before the first break, blinds less than 100/200.

[HoldingFolding]

Great post. Knowing what the problem is should put you nine tenths of the way closer to a solution.

[Mike Gallo]

Learn the gap concept.

[Bigwig]

[ QUOTE ]
Learn the gap concept.

[/ QUOTE ]

What makes you think I play STT's so well without knowing the gap concept?

[Mike Gallo]

But it's clearly not in MTT's, where I consistently survive longer than the average player in the field, but rarely with a top notch stack.

Let me reword my post. I did not meant to offend you or come off as condescending.

But it's clearly not in MTT's, where I consistently survive longer than the average player in the field, but rarely with a top notch stack.

Read this.... In order to make good money in MTT's, you must make final tables. That's clear. To make these tables you must build a stack at some point. In STT's, I simply play tight early, and often double up when I hit a BIG hand like trips. Otherwise, I'm pretty much folding a lot and rarely preflop raising. This is correct strategy. But it's clearly not in MTT's, where I consistently survive longer than the average player in the field, but rarely with a top notch stack

This to me, meant you only waited for premium hands and did not open raise with hands like 79 suited or 910 suited from late position.

It means you might play a bit too tight, thats why I recommended the gap theory.

What general strategy changes do I need to make in order to be able to get better at MTT's

Play more hands early on and play tighter later on. Do a 180 strategy change.

[profitman]

Start playing MTTs on Ultimate Bet!!!!There aren't as many players that play, and you start with more chips. T1500 for tourneys under $100 buy in and 2500 starting chips for tourneys with buy ins over $100. With only a few hundred people in the tourneys, you'll start cashing.....and this will really help your confidence.

[LethalRose]

Great post....

Empire has $1 buyin tournaments, usually around 200-300 people sign up, empire guarantees $250 pool, sometimes just a few people sign up and you end up getting $100 for first.

this is currently where im getting my MTT experience, i have yet to advance far in an MTT.