Conservatives are born rich!

[gvibes]

I am sort of conservative (though closer to libertarian), and I grew up probably average middle-class, but very blue collar. Garbagemen make some decent money.

[thatpfunk]

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Garbagemen make some decent money.

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I'm not sure if this should be surprising or not [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

[jaxmike]

that is no myth. sorry, i just don't agree that people can't move up with enough hard work.

[BCPVP]

First, I'm a conservative, grew up lower middle class and have moved to upper middle class.

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Because of my upbringing and experiences (not only those of my family, but also those of my friends) I can never, ever imagine either of these being true in my mind. I am just curious how others feel and how (if) it relates to the environment in which they were raised.

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thatpfunk, do you believe it is at all possible for those who grow up poor/lower/low middle class to be able to succeed in life? I think the answer should be obvious, but if it's not, look at many of the biographies of some of the top poker players. Especially of those that are from southeast Asia. Many grew up poor but through their hard work, coupled with some natural abilities and a little luck have became fairly successful.

Of course there are other areas that this applies to as well. Sports is another area where less well off can graduate to the upper/wealthy class and sometimes quite quickly too. Again, a combination of hard work, natural ability, and some luck. Need more? How about the music industry? A lot of musicians didn't start wealthy and often started out quite poor. Yet once again, hard work, natural ability, and a bit of luck brought them success.

To me, it's all about finding out what you're naturally good at, working your ass off, and finding a bit of luck. Of course there will always be those that are born in better circumstances than others, but isn't that what every parent wishes for their children?

I'll let someone more articulate and knowledgable argue the merits of our current tax system. My beliefs could about that could probably be summarized as I believe success should be rewarded, not punished.

[Voltorb]

I completely agree with your assessment. Hard work is no longer a guarantee of financial success or even financial stability. The gap between the highest paid CEO's in this country and their lowest paid employee has grown and continues to grow tremendously. Worker productivity has skyrocketed while wages have remained stagnant. Today, if you work hard, you might find out that you're just a hard working slave.

Okay, I got a little off point there. But it is without a doubt hard for those who work at the lower end of the pay scale to subsist these days. I worked in a warehouse for several months where the base pay was $6.25 per hour. Could you imagine having to survive on that kind of pay? Thank God I was still living with my parents (I'll bet the union workers hated my guts). I remember working there about three months. There was this woman suppoting two kids who had been working there for two years. She had a decent working record. For all the time she had been there, she received a fifteen cent raise. And others speak of upward mobility.

If it takes money to make money, how do those with no money make it? How do you invest in your future, if you have little money to invest? Taking out a loan is just a shortcut to the poor house. It is far too typical to find a recent college graduate stuffing burritos at Taco Bell and wondering how he can afford to pay his student loans. And the interest keeps piling on...

Unlimited expanision in a closed system like planet earth is neither possible, nor necessary. The human race needs to slow down and realize that there is much more to life than the mindless, or even mindful, pursuit of material satisfaction. Most people understand this simple fact, but very few actually live like they do. It boggles my mind how productive we are as a species, how much incredible wealth we have. What do we do with it? We horde it, because it is ours, it's our precioussss. But this isn't totally the fault of our own, it's just human nature.

The real problems I see in this world stem from the simple fact that we, as a species, have grown far too fast. It's like the tall kid in junior high who was the short kid the year before. Now he's stumbling everywhere, bumping into everything and tripping over his own ankles. That's us, that's the human race. We haven't grown into our immense population size, our vast technological progress. Everything about us is moving forward at an unprecedented rate, except our wisdom. We are still the same self-centered, bellicose three-year olds we were as the Mongols, the Huns, or the Vikings. We just have bigger weapons, and bigger populations to destroy.

I digress again. Seems its kinda hard for me to stay on point. Maybe its because there are so many reasons as to why people find themselves in poverty, with very little chance to get out. If we don't destroy ourselves first, I hope we solve that situation some time in the future.

[jaxmike]

they have completed the indoctrination process.

[CCass]

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Anyone in our society can become part of the upper middle class if they want it badly enough.

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Myth. Do you see why?

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No, I don't see why. As I stated, I grew up lower middle class (my family qualified for reduced lunch prices when I was in school). I worked 30-35 hours a week while in HS, used the money I had saved to go to college (also worked part-time while in college), got a degree and have been working in a professional capacity ever since.

Please tell me why that same opportunity is not available to all other Americans.

[player24]

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1) anyone can work and make decent money in the US and 2) it is not fair to tax the rich more than the poor.

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It is difficult to address these issues without getting involved in an exercise in linguistic hairsplitting.

Of course, not "anyone" can work and make decent money. Most young people have that opportunity, but those who grow up in an unstable environment without a basic education will face extreme odds.

The taxation issue is similarly complex. The wealthy pay higher tax rates (even including all of the regressive taxes in the system) and they pay more than an equal share of aggregate tax revenues. This is not balanced and it is discriminatory. But progressive taxation is probably morally justified (and therefore, "fair") based on a ethical philosophy which says that all citzens should 'enjoy' certain minimal standards of living. The wealthy pay more taxes because there is a need for tax revenue to provide for those who cannot provide for themselves (although the economic dislocations associated with high marginal tax rates can have a multiplier effect which has detrimental effects for the aggregate economy.)

thatpfunk, It is good for everyone, in my opinion, to question the political beliefs whith which they were raised. You may arrive at different conclusions after you have more life experience.

[Dead]

I was raised with no political beliefs. My family was not political at all.

I came to my beliefs from my own research.

[thatpfunk]

BC,
In no way am I saying it is impossible. It is very, very possible to move out of the lower classes.

However, I also know that it is very very difficult for many people and sometimes there are situations that do not allow it.

Example (personal and gonna keep it short): My mother was diagnosed with Leukemia in 1985. My dad worked for a medium sized corporation that provided our family with health insurance. Because of my mothers condition (6 months to live) he was forced to stay with this company no matter what; no other providers would accept my mother and her bills.

The company manipulated my father, knowing that he could not leave, and he was treated horribly and paid very little. Thankfully my mom survived and in '94 was diagnosed free of cancer. My father spent 9 years busting has ass and our family never took a hand out. As a child I never realized how poor we really were. As soon as my mom was cleared, he quit and got a great job.

When I think of how difficult it was on my dad, I know there are people in much worse situations, and I thank god (or whoever) that he was a strong enough person to support my family.

As a result, I don't mind paying taxes, even if someone is ripping off welfare or whatever, simply because I know some real people are getting help.
(rambling, sorry)